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Have you gone through the exercise of enumerating the beliefs of tenured Islamic studies professors at Ivy league universities, or are we just enjoying your spe

Have you gone through the exercise of enumerating the beliefs of tenured Islamic studies professors at Ivy league universities, or are we just enjoying your speculation?

DamnYuppie 5y ago
A few off the top of my head: 1.) Homosexuality is forbidden in Islam and is generally looked down upon. 2.) Not necessarily based off the Quran but their stance on Israel is generally not aligned with the western countries. 3.) Women's rights Having strong views/beliefs that aren't aligned with the progressive agenda would pretty much keep you from any job at an Ivy league school no a days.
- maxerickson 5y ago
  "Enumerating" means identifying the specific beliefs of each individual in question, not waving your hands in the air and declaring what you think Ivy league professors are required to believe.
  - Nicksil 5y ago
    > "Enumerating" means identifying the specific beliefs of each individual in question, not waving your hands in the air and declaring what you think Ivy league professors are required to believe. Enumerating is specifying one after the other; creating a list. The comment you're replying to is a list of things. If that isn't what you meant, you might reword your comment so others may address it as you would like.
    - maxerickson 5y ago
      In the comment they replied to there's a clear phrase describing my meaning. You are being ridiculous. enumerating the beliefs of tenured Islamic studies professors at Ivy league universities If they are tenured Ivy league professors and have cartoon Muslim beliefs, then I win the argument…
      - Nicksil 5y ago
        >In the comment they replied to there's a clear phrase describing my meaning. You are being ridiculous. What's ridiculous is asking for a thing, receiving that thing, then proceeding to lament the thing you asked for isn't what you wanted. >I win the argument… You win nothing.
        maxerickson 5y ago
        You don't seem to understand what a phrase is.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  Some people are advocating burkhas in Bay Area. They even added an Emoji in the iPhone. That's how much they value inclusivity that they'd feature a symbol of oppression by choice. At this rate, we have a massive group of people that will forgive serial murderers for rehabilitation, but won't let go of someone who forgot to put pronouns in their email signature. They'll destroy their career and life if they can. I've always been a contrarian. Any time anyone is intolerant of difference of opinion, I am compelled even more to not conform. The recent progressive agenda just doesn't make any rational sense to me. It is everything against fairness, equality and rationality. I've voted for democrats my whole life, but it will change this year.
- rayiner 5y ago
  No abortion after 120 days for the most part.
anonuser123456 5y ago
Parents post is about what the majority of Muslims believe, not tenured professors of Islamic studies. Other wise, in parents opinion, they would not get tenure.
- maxerickson 5y ago
  And if there is a tenured Muslim professor of Islamic studies, what does that do to their argument?
  - anonuser123456 5y ago
    Nothing? Parents point is that Muslim professors of Islamic studies do not represent the views of “most” Muslims.
  - esyir 5y ago
    Well, the first thing that I'd point out is the Yale Islamic studies departments diversity and equal opportunity statements. This will fly heavily against much of the Islamic world's views on homosexuality.
    - rayiner 5y ago
      It’s not just what gets said it’s what doesn’t get said. Islam, more so than Protestant Christianity, views the teachings of the prophet as guidance and a model for how to live. One can imagine scholarly work that analyzes how Islamic beliefs—including traditional ones—provide social benefits. For example, there is a strong negative correlation between AIDs prevalence and percentage Muslim population in African countries, likely due to rigid Islamic sexual standards. Of course being a professor is different than being an imam. But the political climate in American universities—under which you have to take many of the beliefs of most of the world’s 1.8 billion Muslims as per se bigotry—means you get a lot of articles focused on how Americans are racist against Muslims and relatively little work delving into Islam itself on its own merits. In the context of racial minorities, you see a huge distortion as well. The religiosity and social conservatism of Black people tends to be totally excluded from academic conversations about structural racism. Raj Chetty (a British Indian economist) has been doing studies showing that the two factors that most strongly affect upward mobility for Black kids is rates of single parenthood in the community as a whole, and levels of white racism. The latter is covered at length in academic treatments, but the former is virtually ignored. These distortions exist with respect to other groups, but have less impact there because academia has far less impact. Harvard’s new lead chaplain is an atheist, but who care because academia has very little influence on the public discourse surrounding Christianity. Nobody looks to academia to explain what Irish Americans are thinking.
lmm 5y ago
Do you actually think it's at all plausible that such an exercise would have a different result to what GP is claiming, or are you just using this as a way to suppress their position?
- maxerickson 5y ago
  I think it's likely!
- jjk166 5y ago
  Burden of proof is on the one making the claim, not the one asking for evidence in support of the claim.
  - lmm 5y ago
    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, but the converse is that mundane common-sense claims do not. https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/14/beware-isolated-demands-for-rigor/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/14/beware-isolated-demand...
    - jjk166 5y ago
      Nope, mundane claims still require evidence, and it should be even easier to find and present. Lots of things which are "common sense" are not at all true.

Have you gone through the exercise of enumerating the beliefs of tenured Islamic studies professors at Ivy league universities, or are we just enjoying your speculation?

DamnYuppie 5y ago

A few off the top of my head: 1.) Homosexuality is forbidden in Islam and is generally looked down upon. 2.) Not necessarily based off the Quran but their stance on Israel is generally not aligned with the western countries. 3.) Women's rights Having strong views/beliefs that aren't aligned with the progressive agenda would pretty much keep you from any job at an Ivy league school no a days.

maxerickson 5y ago
"Enumerating" means identifying the specific beliefs of each individual in question, not waving your hands in the air and declaring what you think Ivy league professors are required to believe.
- Nicksil 5y ago
  > "Enumerating" means identifying the specific beliefs of each individual in question, not waving your hands in the air and declaring what you think Ivy league professors are required to believe. Enumerating is specifying one after the other; creating a list. The comment you're replying to is a list of things. If that isn't what you meant, you might reword your comment so others may address it as you would like.
  - maxerickson 5y ago
    In the comment they replied to there's a clear phrase describing my meaning. You are being ridiculous. enumerating the beliefs of tenured Islamic studies professors at Ivy league universities If they are tenured Ivy league professors and have cartoon Muslim beliefs, then I win the argument…
    - Nicksil 5y ago
      >In the comment they replied to there's a clear phrase describing my meaning. You are being ridiculous. What's ridiculous is asking for a thing, receiving that thing, then proceeding to lament the thing you asked for isn't what you wanted. >I win the argument… You win nothing.
      - maxerickson 5y ago
        You don't seem to understand what a phrase is.
systemvoltage 5y ago
Some people are advocating burkhas in Bay Area. They even added an Emoji in the iPhone. That's how much they value inclusivity that they'd feature a symbol of oppression by choice. At this rate, we have a massive group of people that will forgive serial murderers for rehabilitation, but won't let go of someone who forgot to put pronouns in their email signature. They'll destroy their career and life if they can. I've always been a contrarian. Any time anyone is intolerant of difference of opinion, I am compelled even more to not conform. The recent progressive agenda just doesn't make any rational sense to me. It is everything against fairness, equality and rationality. I've voted for democrats my whole life, but it will change this year.
rayiner 5y ago
No abortion after 120 days for the most part.

anonuser123456 5y ago

Parents post is about what the majority of Muslims believe, not tenured professors of Islamic studies. Other wise, in parents opinion, they would not get tenure.

maxerickson 5y ago
And if there is a tenured Muslim professor of Islamic studies, what does that do to their argument?
- anonuser123456 5y ago
  Nothing? Parents point is that Muslim professors of Islamic studies do not represent the views of “most” Muslims.
- esyir 5y ago
  Well, the first thing that I'd point out is the Yale Islamic studies departments diversity and equal opportunity statements. This will fly heavily against much of the Islamic world's views on homosexuality.
  - rayiner 5y ago
    It’s not just what gets said it’s what doesn’t get said. Islam, more so than Protestant Christianity, views the teachings of the prophet as guidance and a model for how to live. One can imagine scholarly work that analyzes how Islamic beliefs—including traditional ones—provide social benefits. For example, there is a strong negative correlation between AIDs prevalence and percentage Muslim population in African countries, likely due to rigid Islamic sexual standards. Of course being a professor is different than being an imam. But the political climate in American universities—under which you have to take many of the beliefs of most of the world’s 1.8 billion Muslims as per se bigotry—means you get a lot of articles focused on how Americans are racist against Muslims and relatively little work delving into Islam itself on its own merits. In the context of racial minorities, you see a huge distortion as well. The religiosity and social conservatism of Black people tends to be totally excluded from academic conversations about structural racism. Raj Chetty (a British Indian economist) has been doing studies showing that the two factors that most strongly affect upward mobility for Black kids is rates of single parenthood in the community as a whole, and levels of white racism. The latter is covered at length in academic treatments, but the former is virtually ignored. These distortions exist with respect to other groups, but have less impact there because academia has far less impact. Harvard’s new lead chaplain is an atheist, but who care because academia has very little influence on the public discourse surrounding Christianity. Nobody looks to academia to explain what Irish Americans are thinking.

lmm 5y ago

Do you actually think it's at all plausible that such an exercise would have a different result to what GP is claiming, or are you just using this as a way to suppress their position?

maxerickson 5y ago
I think it's likely!
jjk166 5y ago
Burden of proof is on the one making the claim, not the one asking for evidence in support of the claim.
- lmm 5y ago
  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, but the converse is that mundane common-sense claims do not. https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/14/beware-isolated-demands-for-rigor/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/14/beware-isolated-demand...
  - jjk166 5y ago
    Nope, mundane claims still require evidence, and it should be even easier to find and present. Lots of things which are "common sense" are not at all true.