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HTML5 Boilerplate v2.0 released

267 points by necolas 15y ago

verekia 15y ago
Awesome! <3
- alanh 15y ago
  Welcome to HN. Don’t worry about any downvotes to your first comment, but do keep in mind we tend to discourage comments that don't add anything — sometimes even if they are kind and positive, as your was. Check out the FAQ for more guidelines.
  - iaskwhy 15y ago
    That could be displayed to every new member's first comments whenever text.lenght < 20 or something like that.
joshfinnie 15y ago
Lots of good changes! I like the standard of prompting for installing Chrome Frame for IE6 users. Gives them the option of installing the Chrome Frame or still getting to the content! And very interested to try out normalize.css...
- ozten 15y ago
  I wonder what percentage of people who have enough access to install a plugin into IE6, don't have enough access to install a new browser. To plenty of corporate machines... this will be an annoying piece of bling.
  - watchandwait 15y ago
    The new version of the plugin does not require admin permission.
  - Athtar 15y ago
    IIRC the new version of Chrome Frame does not require Admin access any more. I think it runs a secondary process that injects Chrome Frame into any new instances of IE starting up.
    - alanh 15y ago
      Amazingly, it goes one further — reloading any pages that were already open before the Chrome Frame installer ran is sufficient to get the CF goodness on those pages!
  - ephemient 15y ago
    http://blog.chromium.org/2011/06/introducing-non-admin-chrome-frame.html http://blog.chromium.org/2011/06/introducing-non-admin-chrom...
trebor 15y ago
Glad to see that I'm not the only one who likes the normalize.css technique.
- dwolfson20 15y ago
  I've always thought resetting by using a scalpel would be better than resetting by using a machete. But the problem with the scalpel is, you have to know how and where to cut. So thanks, Boilerplate guys, for figuring out where to cut!
- ZoFreX 15y ago
  I've never liked CSS resets, but I went through every line of normalize.css and have sinced used it on several websites, and love it. It is an incredibly well-researched and thought out stylesheet, but more importantly, every decision is justified and cited in the comments, so you can make up your own mind quite easily.
andrewheins 15y ago
They seem to have pulled down the Mobile boilerplate, which is too bad - I was a fan of that. I wonder if they're implying we should use html5 v2 for mobile now. I know v2 has a "mobile-first" focus...
- necolas 15y ago
  There's still a dedicated Mobile Boilerplate - https://github.com/shichuan/mobile-html5-boilerplate https://github.com/shichuan/mobile-html5-boilerplate
- paulirish 15y ago
  I messed up the deploy, whoops! back up: http://html5boilerplate.com/mobile/ http://html5boilerplate.com/mobile/ We see a future where these two projects _probably_ merge, but not just yet. I think the mobile-first, one-web community has a little more work to tackle. For now the mobile boilerplate is ideal for mobile-only webapps (like with PhoneGap).
  - dwolfson20 15y ago
    I find it rather straightforward to modify H5BP into a responsive design, anyway. When the time comes for mobile-only to die, it's not going to be a difficult transition. No rush. Thanks for all your great work, Paul!
alwillis 15y ago
I wish more projects were run like HTML5 Boilerplate. Great job!
ErikRogneby 15y ago
I look forward to using this. Great job!
MostAwesomeDude 15y ago
My first thought when reading this was that maybe my HTML5 boilerplate is too plain. See, mine looks like this: <!DOCTYPE html> Maybe that's too small, but I could have sworn that a big point in HTML5 was that HTML could be a lot looser and have less boilerplate, not more.
- pacomerh 15y ago
  here we go again people complaining about the boilerplate having too much stuff. I would rather have this than <!DOCTYPE html> which I already know by memory. You can always remove stuff as you please. Can you guys accept it as a cool project that saves you time? or does the name "boilerplate" bother you that much.
  - MostAwesomeDude 15y ago
    I think it saves some people some time. This looks like too much stuff for me. I was really complaining more about the usage of "HTML5". It feels buzzwordy. Maybe I've just been away from serious web development for too long, but this entire site feels like too much stuff.
    - pacomerh 15y ago
      HTML5 indeed buzzed, but take it as a library where you can grab stuff, or just plain reference.
    - robryan 15y ago
      Apart from some of the opinionated "you should be doing it this way" stuff, if your not using a lot of this your probably providing a sub optimal experience for someone somewhere using an old browser. I guess it depends how much you care about backwards compatibility over just building for the latest and greatest, each project will be at a different point on the scale of what they need to support.
      - MostAwesomeDude 15y ago
sandGorgon 15y ago
Question from someone who is not an expert in crafting CSS: Is normalize.css something that needs to be actively maintained as newer (versions?) browsers come up or older browser have some changes ? It sounds to me that CSS Reset might be a "bulldozer" and is absolutely inelegant, but I would not have to download a newer version of it every 6 months as I probably would have to do with normalize.css. Am I missing something here ?
- iaskwhy 15y ago
  If we assume old browsers won't have new versions and newer browsers will be getting closer to the standard then I don't think you need to keep updating your code. Old simple CSS code usually works great on newer versions.
- necolas 15y ago
  Good question. Even CSS resets undergo changes over time (Eric Meyer has adapted his reset several times). But resets are more limited in scope. Normalize.css includes things like: consistent `abbr`, `mark`, `svg` styles; improved `font-size` and `font-family` inheritance for forms and pre-formatted text; and fixes for a few IE, WebKit, and Firefox bugs. Their approaches are different. But I don't think you'll need to update it regularly - just at the start of a project.

267 points by necolas 15y ago

verekia 15y ago

Awesome! <3

alanh 15y ago
Welcome to HN. Don’t worry about any downvotes to your first comment, but do keep in mind we tend to discourage comments that don't add anything — sometimes even if they are kind and positive, as your was. Check out the FAQ for more guidelines.
- iaskwhy 15y ago
  That could be displayed to every new member's first comments whenever text.lenght < 20 or something like that.

joshfinnie 15y ago

Lots of good changes! I like the standard of prompting for installing Chrome Frame for IE6 users. Gives them the option of installing the Chrome Frame or still getting to the content! And very interested to try out normalize.css...

ozten 15y ago
I wonder what percentage of people who have enough access to install a plugin into IE6, don't have enough access to install a new browser. To plenty of corporate machines... this will be an annoying piece of bling.
- watchandwait 15y ago
  The new version of the plugin does not require admin permission.
- Athtar 15y ago
  IIRC the new version of Chrome Frame does not require Admin access any more. I think it runs a secondary process that injects Chrome Frame into any new instances of IE starting up.
  - alanh 15y ago
    Amazingly, it goes one further — reloading any pages that were already open before the Chrome Frame installer ran is sufficient to get the CF goodness on those pages!
- ephemient 15y ago
  http://blog.chromium.org/2011/06/introducing-non-admin-chrome-frame.html http://blog.chromium.org/2011/06/introducing-non-admin-chrom...

trebor 15y ago

Glad to see that I'm not the only one who likes the normalize.css technique.

dwolfson20 15y ago
I've always thought resetting by using a scalpel would be better than resetting by using a machete. But the problem with the scalpel is, you have to know how and where to cut. So thanks, Boilerplate guys, for figuring out where to cut!
ZoFreX 15y ago
I've never liked CSS resets, but I went through every line of normalize.css and have sinced used it on several websites, and love it. It is an incredibly well-researched and thought out stylesheet, but more importantly, every decision is justified and cited in the comments, so you can make up your own mind quite easily.

andrewheins 15y ago

They seem to have pulled down the Mobile boilerplate, which is too bad - I was a fan of that. I wonder if they're implying we should use html5 v2 for mobile now. I know v2 has a "mobile-first" focus...

necolas 15y ago
There's still a dedicated Mobile Boilerplate - https://github.com/shichuan/mobile-html5-boilerplate https://github.com/shichuan/mobile-html5-boilerplate
paulirish 15y ago
I messed up the deploy, whoops! back up: http://html5boilerplate.com/mobile/ http://html5boilerplate.com/mobile/ We see a future where these two projects _probably_ merge, but not just yet. I think the mobile-first, one-web community has a little more work to tackle. For now the mobile boilerplate is ideal for mobile-only webapps (like with PhoneGap).
- dwolfson20 15y ago
  I find it rather straightforward to modify H5BP into a responsive design, anyway. When the time comes for mobile-only to die, it's not going to be a difficult transition. No rush. Thanks for all your great work, Paul!

alwillis 15y ago

I wish more projects were run like HTML5 Boilerplate. Great job!

ErikRogneby 15y ago

I look forward to using this. Great job!

MostAwesomeDude 15y ago

My first thought when reading this was that maybe my HTML5 boilerplate is too plain. See, mine looks like this: <!DOCTYPE html> Maybe that's too small, but I could have sworn that a big point in HTML5 was that HTML could be a lot looser and have less boilerplate, not more.

pacomerh 15y ago
here we go again people complaining about the boilerplate having too much stuff. I would rather have this than <!DOCTYPE html> which I already know by memory. You can always remove stuff as you please. Can you guys accept it as a cool project that saves you time? or does the name "boilerplate" bother you that much.
- MostAwesomeDude 15y ago
  I think it saves some people some time. This looks like too much stuff for me. I was really complaining more about the usage of "HTML5". It feels buzzwordy. Maybe I've just been away from serious web development for too long, but this entire site feels like too much stuff.
  - pacomerh 15y ago
    HTML5 indeed buzzed, but take it as a library where you can grab stuff, or just plain reference.
  - robryan 15y ago
    Apart from some of the opinionated "you should be doing it this way" stuff, if your not using a lot of this your probably providing a sub optimal experience for someone somewhere using an old browser. I guess it depends how much you care about backwards compatibility over just building for the latest and greatest, each project will be at a different point on the scale of what they need to support.
    - MostAwesomeDude 15y ago

sandGorgon 15y ago

Question from someone who is not an expert in crafting CSS: Is normalize.css something that needs to be actively maintained as newer (versions?) browsers come up or older browser have some changes ? It sounds to me that CSS Reset might be a "bulldozer" and is absolutely inelegant, but I would not have to download a newer version of it every 6 months as I probably would have to do with normalize.css. Am I missing something here ?

iaskwhy 15y ago
If we assume old browsers won't have new versions and newer browsers will be getting closer to the standard then I don't think you need to keep updating your code. Old simple CSS code usually works great on newer versions.
necolas 15y ago
Good question. Even CSS resets undergo changes over time (Eric Meyer has adapted his reset several times). But resets are more limited in scope. Normalize.css includes things like: consistent `abbr`, `mark`, `svg` styles; improved `font-size` and `font-family` inheritance for forms and pre-formatted text; and fixes for a few IE, WebKit, and Firefox bugs. Their approaches are different. But I don't think you'll need to update it regularly - just at the start of a project.