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Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to write out a detailed reply and sharing your experience! Being embedded in the academic world, there is such a war

Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to write out a detailed reply and sharing your experience! Being embedded in the academic world, there is such a warped selectionship bias, it's good to hear the experience of someone who left and did important things outside academia! I'm in my second year of a STEM PhD, and I'm not really sure what I want to do with this. I'm kind of contemplating dropping out, but it's difficult to say how much of my frustrations stem from pandemic-related things (the lack of that social stuff, and the way the university has handled the pandemic) and how much they will persist past it. It seems the department used to have a really good social life before the pandemic, so I'm hopeful. I'm also frustrated with my advisor, but after an important deadline soon I will bring my frustrations up to them and see how that goes. On the other hand, I have a lot of free time compared to when I used to work full-time. I have the freedom to work on projects I want to work on (both by steering/concentrating my research into cool things but also in my plentiful free time). I moved from overseas to a very good university in the US in a cool city for the PhD. I feel like I've climbed so high in some sense, from an unknown, small regional city to where I'm at now, and it feels like a "huge thing to throw it away". Then on one hand I feel like I will reap benefits of the PhD for life; as you mention in meetings, I think in the US there is even more "credentialism" and having a PhD from a well known university makes you "smart" a priori. (Typing that out, it sounds like such a vain thing to care about. I joke that my parents will never see me as an adult until I have a doctorate.) I'm on the fence with these things... But I don't think dropping out and getting a job would be a very good idea until we emerge a bit more from covid, so my contingency plan is to wait it out for a few months and re-evaluate. Anyway, sorry, I realize this ended up being a long excerpt of my internal monologue and was probably not particularly exciting or interesting to read!

teekert 5y ago
Np. It's difficult for an outsider to say anything helpful. But if it's really Covid related that frustrates you, keep in mind that other places are probably no different. If it's the advisor, just keep in mind that you are the only one that has your best interest at heart. Your advisor (prof?) has different goals. But some goals align, for example you probably both want you to finish your PhD (in the Netherlands this means a lot of money for the institute) and to write some articles while getting there. This means you can respectfully indicate that it is in her/his best interest if you stay (or just hint at leaving if nothing changes) and that something has to change (indicate that you are experiencing pressure?). I always tell people: You're either at the table or you're on the menu. In other words, make your choices or someone else will make them for you. Being able to respectfully stand up for yourself is an important skill and one that is (given a healthy relationship) always appreciated. Employers don't want you to leave (and if they do: Leave) so give them the chance to make things better for you instead of just leaving suddenly. Looking back your advisor may have wished for a opportunity to help you finish smoothly, even though that desire might not be expressed now (some managers believe some pressure and show of power is good for you and it makes them "a real manager", I never understood that personally). It seems that you still have about 2 years to go, I had 0 articles at 3 years, but if you already have 1 or more you are well underway to finishing successfully I guess. Still I feel you'd really like to stop it. Again, there is no shame in that if you ask me. The biggest downsides are probably the self judgement and they way that makes you feel. But you could choose to feel like you made a choice for the better (better mental health, no more 2 years of pain to look forward to) and just go for it. And indeed it sounds like a vain thing to care about, but it's real and it can help you. But what is it worth? Who are you disappointing when you stop? Hopefully not yourself and your parents, the rest: you don't need them. Again, I can't speak for you, and your mental well-being is important so it is important to determine the source of you not feeling optimal. Is it the PhD? Is it Covid restrictions? Sometimes it's good to live by the day, find something nice to do each day and don't focus too much on the future. It will come, you have time.

teekert 5y ago

Np. It's difficult for an outsider to say anything helpful. But if it's really Covid related that frustrates you, keep in mind that other places are probably no different. If it's the advisor, just keep in mind that you are the only one that has your best interest at heart. Your advisor (prof?) has different goals. But some goals align, for example you probably both want you to finish your PhD (in the Netherlands this means a lot of money for the institute) and to write some articles while getting there. This means you can respectfully indicate that it is in her/his best interest if you stay (or just hint at leaving if nothing changes) and that something has to change (indicate that you are experiencing pressure?). I always tell people: You're either at the table or you're on the menu. In other words, make your choices or someone else will make them for you. Being able to respectfully stand up for yourself is an important skill and one that is (given a healthy relationship) always appreciated. Employers don't want you to leave (and if they do: Leave) so give them the chance to make things better for you instead of just leaving suddenly. Looking back your advisor may have wished for a opportunity to help you finish smoothly, even though that desire might not be expressed now (some managers believe some pressure and show of power is good for you and it makes them "a real manager", I never understood that personally). It seems that you still have about 2 years to go, I had 0 articles at 3 years, but if you already have 1 or more you are well underway to finishing successfully I guess. Still I feel you'd really like to stop it. Again, there is no shame in that if you ask me. The biggest downsides are probably the self judgement and they way that makes you feel. But you could choose to feel like you made a choice for the better (better mental health, no more 2 years of pain to look forward to) and just go for it. And indeed it sounds like a vain thing to care about, but it's real and it can help you. But what is it worth? Who are you disappointing when you stop? Hopefully not yourself and your parents, the rest: you don't need them. Again, I can't speak for you, and your mental well-being is important so it is important to determine the source of you not feeling optimal. Is it the PhD? Is it Covid restrictions? Sometimes it's good to live by the day, find something nice to do each day and don't focus too much on the future. It will come, you have time.