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Extreme right-wing is understood the same pretty much everywhere except maybe extreme right-wing itself. Now here in Estonia and I venture a guess in pretty mu
by borism 15y ago
Extreme right-wing is understood the same pretty much everywhere except maybe extreme right-wing itself.
Now here in Estonia and I venture a guess in pretty much all of liberal democratic countries (and most notably USA) right-wing IS actually associated if not equal with extreme right-wing, since there actually is no left-wing.
So when Obama or our centrist parties are labelled "communist" by teabaggers and such, you actually begin to understand that something is terribly out of balance with democratic systems of ours.
- hvs 15y agoTo make a statement like "the right-wing IS actually equal with the extreme right-wing" is to invalidate your entire argument and show that you can't differentiate people that you disagree with.
- CWuestefeld 15y agoI'm surprised you didn't also cite his claim that "there actually is no left-wing" in America, and the implication in "Obama or our centrist parties" that the American left is really just the natural order of things. All-in-all, the post you reacted to is a remarkable example of political blinders. Although I'm just guessing, it seems to be exactly what pundits are talking about when they refer to the Internet "echo chamber". I can have a productive conversation with someone who disagrees with me, but understands the philosophies on which my ideas are based. Talking with someone who believes that there are no other legitimate philosophies is just wasting air.
- borism 15y agoI am very well aware that there is left wing in America, it just isn't represented in any meaningful way in political system in my and many others' opinion. Can you bring counterexamples? Here's an article that is shaping my opinion on the matter from very respected "progressive" James K. Galbraith: http://www.alternet.org/economy/151949/how_obama_is_neutralizing_the_left_and_tilting_rightward/?page=entire http://www.alternet.org/economy/151949/how_obama_is_neutrali... P.S. if you disagree, I'd appreciate explanation about what exactly.
- hvs 15y agoIt may not be represented to the level that you would like it, but that isn't to say that isn't represented in any meaningful way. In much the same way, George W. Bush is considered a "conservative", but there are many on the right that do not feel that he in any way represents their beliefs as conservatives. That is a fair argument to have about both Bush and Obama, but to claim that that means that the left (or by extension the right) is not represented is disingenuous.
- borism 15y agoIt may not be represented to the level that you would like it, but that isn't to say that isn't represented in any meaningful way. this, again, is not my personal opinion, but what I've read from political scientists. you or me can indeed not consider Bush a conservative, but in any objective terms as studied by political science he is, and in the same vein Obama and the majority of Democrats are considered centrists, not leftists (or commies, as GOP would like to paint them).
- CWuestefeld 15y agothis, again, is not my personal opinion, but what I've read from political scientists. I question your use of the term "political scientist". I think you actually mean "political pundits", writers of op-ed pieces, etc. To say that someone schooled in the science of political interactions is taking a stand as to whether something is "left" or "right" really strains my credulity. The thing is, the definition of those terms -- as this thread itself demonstrates -- is a fuzzy concept that changes over time, place, and individual speaker, and doesn't have a scientific definition. Moreover, any scientist could tell you that the left-right spectrum itself is a hideously handicapped model of political values. In other words, you're never going to find a paper in political science making claims that "the political left believes that...". Now, if you believe that those folks acting as foils against the American Right -- to wit, Pres. Obama and the Democratic Party -- are not themselves representative of the Left, can you answer two questions for me? 1. What are the ideas of "real" members of the Left that Obama and the other Democrats are failing to represent? 2. Since Obama and the Democrats clearly are in opposition to the American Right, what are those ideas that they (the DEMs) are fighting for in opposition to the Right? Then, how and why do those two sets differ?
- borism 15y agoI was talking about perception average person receives from media, not my personal view on the matter.
- anamax 15y ago> teabaggers Are you being intentionally insulting or merely ignorant?
- Pooter 15y agoThis is how they referred to themselves originally. Maybe he's just being anachronistic. Or maybe he thinks they suck balls.