3 ms·

> I suspect it's easier to adapt a human to an environment optimized for robots than it is to adapt a robot to an environment optimized for humans. Replacing e

by runako 5y ago

> I suspect it's easier to adapt a human to an environment optimized for robots than it is to adapt a robot to an environment optimized for humans. Replacing existing human spaces with robot-optimized spaces would make robots significantly more expensive than basically any other approach.

mikepurvis 5y ago
At that point, why even bother with all the interface hassles of having it work with a mobile manipulator? If you're already getting semi-custom equipment all over the place and designating robot exclusion zones within your house, then you probably have the cash and floorspace to go all in on special-purpose labour saving devices like a washer/dryer combo that loads directly from the chute and can run itself. But once you begin describing that, it's clear how absurd it would be to install it all for use a few times a week. Home mobile manipulation will never be a thing until it can use the existing HMIs.
whatshisface 5y ago
>Replacing existing human spaces with robot-optimized spaces would make robots significantly more expensive than basically any other approach. Houses built over the past 50 or so years are designed to disintegrate over 50 or so years and be rebuilt anyway. Although demand for new construction is reduced by the way that neighborhoods tend to go from high income to low income as the buildings physically disintegrate, there is a lower limit somewhere, and redevelopment will happen everywhere eventually.
- runako 5y ago
  > Houses built over the past 50 or so years are designed to disintegrate over 50 or so years and be rebuilt anyway. This may happen in places, but in any case building larger (to accommodate robots) spaces is not a way to make the robots more cost-effective or drive adoption.
  - whatshisface 5y ago
    Locomotion on flat floors covered in furniture is one problem out of many, and if redesigning all the other parts of the human environment solved all the other problems, researchers would only have one problem left.
ademup 5y ago
We replaced a $15 land line with a $1,100 iphone and got multitudinous other benefits. Replacing human centric habitation space with human+robot centric spaces seems like it would have similar outsized benefits. For example, maybe dishes never need to be cleaned by water if you have a robot willing to manually scrub them for 8 hours. Indeed, maybe your robo chef can also sterilize the "counter" so you just eat right off of it.
- kennywinker 5y ago
  As someone who enjoys soup, I can find a couple flaws with that plan. My biggest problem is that if that world comes out of the current one, it's going to be one heavily mediated by capitalism (just like everything on my iPhone). So, yes, the robot could scrub the dishes. But once I've accepted that relationship with my robot, version 2 comes out and it has a feature where it doesn't need to spend 8 hours doing dishes because it includes a free trail of the $20/month dish subscription and just throws them out and signs for the shipment of new ones that comes while I'm away at work. Whatever the exact scenario, the environmental cost will be huge. The COST cost will be huge. And probably the robot will be reporting the details of what I ate and what stayed on my plate back to the company to sell on to the ad sales branch of the company
  - tuatoru 5y ago
    > And probably the robot will be reporting the details of what I ate and what stayed on my plate back to the company to sell on to Life insurance companies and your employer.

by runako 5y ago

mikepurvis 5y ago

At that point, why even bother with all the interface hassles of having it work with a mobile manipulator? If you're already getting semi-custom equipment all over the place and designating robot exclusion zones within your house, then you probably have the cash and floorspace to go all in on special-purpose labour saving devices like a washer/dryer combo that loads directly from the chute and can run itself. But once you begin describing that, it's clear how absurd it would be to install it all for use a few times a week. Home mobile manipulation will never be a thing until it can use the existing HMIs.

whatshisface 5y ago

>Replacing existing human spaces with robot-optimized spaces would make robots significantly more expensive than basically any other approach. Houses built over the past 50 or so years are designed to disintegrate over 50 or so years and be rebuilt anyway. Although demand for new construction is reduced by the way that neighborhoods tend to go from high income to low income as the buildings physically disintegrate, there is a lower limit somewhere, and redevelopment will happen everywhere eventually.

runako 5y ago
> Houses built over the past 50 or so years are designed to disintegrate over 50 or so years and be rebuilt anyway. This may happen in places, but in any case building larger (to accommodate robots) spaces is not a way to make the robots more cost-effective or drive adoption.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  Locomotion on flat floors covered in furniture is one problem out of many, and if redesigning all the other parts of the human environment solved all the other problems, researchers would only have one problem left.

ademup 5y ago

We replaced a $15 land line with a $1,100 iphone and got multitudinous other benefits. Replacing human centric habitation space with human+robot centric spaces seems like it would have similar outsized benefits. For example, maybe dishes never need to be cleaned by water if you have a robot willing to manually scrub them for 8 hours. Indeed, maybe your robo chef can also sterilize the "counter" so you just eat right off of it.

kennywinker 5y ago
As someone who enjoys soup, I can find a couple flaws with that plan. My biggest problem is that if that world comes out of the current one, it's going to be one heavily mediated by capitalism (just like everything on my iPhone). So, yes, the robot could scrub the dishes. But once I've accepted that relationship with my robot, version 2 comes out and it has a feature where it doesn't need to spend 8 hours doing dishes because it includes a free trail of the $20/month dish subscription and just throws them out and signs for the shipment of new ones that comes while I'm away at work. Whatever the exact scenario, the environmental cost will be huge. The COST cost will be huge. And probably the robot will be reporting the details of what I ate and what stayed on my plate back to the company to sell on to the ad sales branch of the company
- tuatoru 5y ago
  > And probably the robot will be reporting the details of what I ate and what stayed on my plate back to the company to sell on to Life insurance companies and your employer.