5 ms·

Hacker news needs a redesign, the UI is horrible by basic accessibility standards: Very small click targets, horrible mobile experience, too small font size.

chrischattin 5y ago
Disagree. HN has one of the most usable designs on the internet. The last thing we need is more unnecessary JS bloat.
- detaro 5y ago
  GP in no way suggested "more unnecessary JS bloat".
gumby 5y ago
It's a nice simple site. For example you can trivially tell your browser to adjust the font size because there isn't a lot of "modern" junk messing with the font handling.
- bondant 5y ago
  Completely agree. The default font is too small for me to read it, so I set it at 150% and that's it. Everything works fine after this small customisation.
adamrezich 5y ago
I don't think it needs a redesign, but some of the smaller, less obtrusive tweaks in this extension for example, would be more than welcome. I used to use other HN apps and newsfeed-reskin websites but I have definitely come to appreciate the utter simplicity of HN's design.
jamespullar 5y ago
Browsers support adjusting font size if that's an issue for you. They also tend to remember your font size of choice per site. I have no issue using Hacker News on mobile either. There are apps available if you prefer something mobile-centric.
zylent 5y ago
HN is an example of what used to be good about the internet. The page loads quickly without pulling in 100Mb of frontend dev navel-gazing. In my experience simple sites like this are much easier to modify locally for accessibility, via screen readers, or local style sheets to modify things like the small click targets. I think many in the HN crowd see it as a rejection of the modern bloat and straight up garbage code that many popular sites (particularly news aggregators, looking @ you reddit) tend to become.
- least 5y ago
  Supposing that all your disabled readers are also all programmers is a terrible approach to developing your website. It was developed a long time ago without any consideration for any of these things and simply hasn't changed to address these things; it's not with intent. I appreciate that hacker news is largely unchanged and I also appreciate a website that is more conservative about making unnecessary changes to it just for the sake of change, but addressing accessibility issues shouldn't be eschewed just for the sake of not changing. You might argue that anyone that is bothered by those changes could also just modify locally for their own personal taste, which seems much more reasonable.
- ebiester 5y ago
  This is a false dichotomy. You can fix the small click targets without adding 100mb of react.
- schmorptron 5y ago
  I agree. It's the one site I can browse on a very limited mobile connection, and I'm very glad about it.
  - 8ytecoder 5y ago
    It’s a knee jerk reaction by those that don’t want change or’ worried the changes would go too far Personally I agree that accessibility needs huge improvement. Not just for those who have disabilities but even other users on a touch screen will benefit
  - 5y ago
justanotherhn 5y ago
One of the reasons why HN has stayed relatively under the radar for the majority of people is in part because of its perceived "bad design". I, for one, love the fact that it's not attracting a wider audience. You have reddit for that.
- greggturkington 5y ago
  There's "bad design" (subjective) then there's "fails to meet accessibility standards" (objective). HN would not pass WCAG 2.0 AA for a large number of reasons. Tap targets and illegible text being big ones. It doesn't matter if you can zoom into text when downvoted comments have so little contrast with the background (#ddd over #f6f6ef). The "X minutes ago", "hide", "edit" comment header links even fail without zooming.
  - Zababa 5y ago
    > Tap targets and illegible text being big ones. You can zoom, and the website reacts very well to zooming. > It doesn't matter if you can zoom into text when downvoted comments have so little contrast with the background (#ddd over #f6f6ef). That's on purpose. If you don't agree with it it's trivial to overload it with custom CSS.
    - greggturkington 5y ago
      Agreed, it's not accessible; if you write your own accessible theme, it will have an accessible theme. Your apartment building doesn't have a wheelchair ramp? That's on purpose. If you don't agree with it it's trivial to buy a bag of concrete and build one.
      - Zababa 5y ago
        > Your apartment building doesn't have a wheelchair ramp? That's on purpose. If you don't agree with it it's trivial to buy a bag of concrete and build one. That's a bad metaphor. First it's not possible to build a wheelchair ramp in your apartment building without affecting everyone else. Second, a custom CSS is very easy to make compared to a wheelchair ramp. Third, the comments being hard to read is, again, on purpose. I don't know the precise reason behind it, from what I understand it's part of the numerous tools that HN has to try to be a better place for discussion online than the rest. Some other tools seems to be: dead comments not being visible by default, new accounts having their names highlighted, the "reply" button not being here on "deep" threads in the "regular tree view". If you don't agree with this decision, that's fine but that doesn't mean everyone is aligned with you.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deeblering4 5y ago
HN looks similar to how reddit did before the UI redesign, and reddit made many things significantly worse when redesigning. UI redesigns as a concept are in my opinion horrible. The approach linked to here is much better. Making incremental changes to the existing and well known UI. No need for a full redesign all at once.
- greggturkington 5y ago
  Reddit had large, high-contrast text and tap targets. Downvoted comments did not have their color contrast reduced. If we're getting specific, HN does not look that similar.
  - deeblering4 5y ago
    When I look at HN and old.reddit.com side by side they have a lot in common Anyways, when is the victorville film archive grand re-opening?
xboxnolifes 5y ago
Man, the replies to this somehow conflating improving accessibility and UX with adding 200ms of input delay and MBs of javascript really show a lack of understanding of the topic.
- tyingq 5y ago
  I was somewhat surprised at that too. HN comments, for example, aren't nested/threaded in any semantic way. Just spacer gifs in a <table>. I don't know how visually impaired readers follow comment threads here.
avery42 5y ago
By default it's small, but all you need to do is zoom in and it's perfect. For example, on my 1440p monitor I'm at 213% zoom and it's working great for me.
nicoburns 5y ago
It's actually excellent by accessibility standards. The small click targets and text can be easily solved by using your browsers built in zoom functionality.
tailspin2019 5y ago
With respect, I don't think it needs a redesign. It could do with a few minor CSS tweaks to address some of those points you've listed (which I do agree with to a degree). But we are a long way from horrible by accessibility standards - I mean, it's literally text only for a start!
forgotmypw17 5y ago
I am on the mild end of the accessibility spectrum -- I am, for the most part, keyboard-only. HN's design is one of the best I've found on the Web, and one of the few places I still feel comfortable at.
Zababa 5y ago
It doesn't "need" a redisign, precisely because this kind of website can easily be extanded by things like this extension.

chrischattin 5y ago

Disagree. HN has one of the most usable designs on the internet. The last thing we need is more unnecessary JS bloat.

detaro 5y ago
GP in no way suggested "more unnecessary JS bloat".

gumby 5y ago

It's a nice simple site. For example you can trivially tell your browser to adjust the font size because there isn't a lot of "modern" junk messing with the font handling.

bondant 5y ago
Completely agree. The default font is too small for me to read it, so I set it at 150% and that's it. Everything works fine after this small customisation.

adamrezich 5y ago

I don't think it needs a redesign, but some of the smaller, less obtrusive tweaks in this extension for example, would be more than welcome. I used to use other HN apps and newsfeed-reskin websites but I have definitely come to appreciate the utter simplicity of HN's design.

jamespullar 5y ago

Browsers support adjusting font size if that's an issue for you. They also tend to remember your font size of choice per site. I have no issue using Hacker News on mobile either. There are apps available if you prefer something mobile-centric.

zylent 5y ago

HN is an example of what used to be good about the internet. The page loads quickly without pulling in 100Mb of frontend dev navel-gazing. In my experience simple sites like this are much easier to modify locally for accessibility, via screen readers, or local style sheets to modify things like the small click targets. I think many in the HN crowd see it as a rejection of the modern bloat and straight up garbage code that many popular sites (particularly news aggregators, looking @ you reddit) tend to become.

least 5y ago
Supposing that all your disabled readers are also all programmers is a terrible approach to developing your website. It was developed a long time ago without any consideration for any of these things and simply hasn't changed to address these things; it's not with intent. I appreciate that hacker news is largely unchanged and I also appreciate a website that is more conservative about making unnecessary changes to it just for the sake of change, but addressing accessibility issues shouldn't be eschewed just for the sake of not changing. You might argue that anyone that is bothered by those changes could also just modify locally for their own personal taste, which seems much more reasonable.
ebiester 5y ago
This is a false dichotomy. You can fix the small click targets without adding 100mb of react.
schmorptron 5y ago
I agree. It's the one site I can browse on a very limited mobile connection, and I'm very glad about it.
- 8ytecoder 5y ago
  It’s a knee jerk reaction by those that don’t want change or’ worried the changes would go too far Personally I agree that accessibility needs huge improvement. Not just for those who have disabilities but even other users on a touch screen will benefit
- 5y ago

justanotherhn 5y ago

One of the reasons why HN has stayed relatively under the radar for the majority of people is in part because of its perceived "bad design". I, for one, love the fact that it's not attracting a wider audience. You have reddit for that.

greggturkington 5y ago
There's "bad design" (subjective) then there's "fails to meet accessibility standards" (objective). HN would not pass WCAG 2.0 AA for a large number of reasons. Tap targets and illegible text being big ones. It doesn't matter if you can zoom into text when downvoted comments have so little contrast with the background (#ddd over #f6f6ef). The "X minutes ago", "hide", "edit" comment header links even fail without zooming.
- Zababa 5y ago
  > Tap targets and illegible text being big ones. You can zoom, and the website reacts very well to zooming. > It doesn't matter if you can zoom into text when downvoted comments have so little contrast with the background (#ddd over #f6f6ef). That's on purpose. If you don't agree with it it's trivial to overload it with custom CSS.
  - greggturkington 5y ago
    Agreed, it's not accessible; if you write your own accessible theme, it will have an accessible theme. Your apartment building doesn't have a wheelchair ramp? That's on purpose. If you don't agree with it it's trivial to buy a bag of concrete and build one.
    - Zababa 5y ago
      > Your apartment building doesn't have a wheelchair ramp? That's on purpose. If you don't agree with it it's trivial to buy a bag of concrete and build one. That's a bad metaphor. First it's not possible to build a wheelchair ramp in your apartment building without affecting everyone else. Second, a custom CSS is very easy to make compared to a wheelchair ramp. Third, the comments being hard to read is, again, on purpose. I don't know the precise reason behind it, from what I understand it's part of the numerous tools that HN has to try to be a better place for discussion online than the rest. Some other tools seems to be: dead comments not being visible by default, new accounts having their names highlighted, the "reply" button not being here on "deep" threads in the "regular tree view". If you don't agree with this decision, that's fine but that doesn't mean everyone is aligned with you.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

deeblering4 5y ago

HN looks similar to how reddit did before the UI redesign, and reddit made many things significantly worse when redesigning. UI redesigns as a concept are in my opinion horrible. The approach linked to here is much better. Making incremental changes to the existing and well known UI. No need for a full redesign all at once.

greggturkington 5y ago
Reddit had large, high-contrast text and tap targets. Downvoted comments did not have their color contrast reduced. If we're getting specific, HN does not look that similar.
- deeblering4 5y ago
  When I look at HN and old.reddit.com side by side they have a lot in common Anyways, when is the victorville film archive grand re-opening?

xboxnolifes 5y ago

Man, the replies to this somehow conflating improving accessibility and UX with adding 200ms of input delay and MBs of javascript really show a lack of understanding of the topic.

tyingq 5y ago
I was somewhat surprised at that too. HN comments, for example, aren't nested/threaded in any semantic way. Just spacer gifs in a <table>. I don't know how visually impaired readers follow comment threads here.

avery42 5y ago

By default it's small, but all you need to do is zoom in and it's perfect. For example, on my 1440p monitor I'm at 213% zoom and it's working great for me.

nicoburns 5y ago

It's actually excellent by accessibility standards. The small click targets and text can be easily solved by using your browsers built in zoom functionality.

tailspin2019 5y ago

With respect, I don't think it needs a redesign. It could do with a few minor CSS tweaks to address some of those points you've listed (which I do agree with to a degree). But we are a long way from horrible by accessibility standards - I mean, it's literally text only for a start!

forgotmypw17 5y ago

I am on the mild end of the accessibility spectrum -- I am, for the most part, keyboard-only. HN's design is one of the best I've found on the Web, and one of the few places I still feel comfortable at.

Zababa 5y ago

It doesn't "need" a redisign, precisely because this kind of website can easily be extanded by things like this extension.