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The tone of this article is bizarre, ignoring the fact that Apple is implementing an ISO standard. It's interesting that states interpreted this conversation as

The tone of this article is bizarre, ignoring the fact that Apple is implementing an ISO standard. It's interesting that states interpreted this conversation as a procurement conversation, since it's not clear the government is being asked to buy anything but instead to see where they are on the mDL standard and whether they'd be interested in participating in Apple's early phase release of support for that standard. The information is useful, but the whole framing is very strange and conspiratorial that's not supported by the emails or the facts.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
One formula for low hanging clickbait is <large organization> + <conspiratorial topic> = plausible deniability for exploring option of malicious intent regardless of lack of evidence. And due to their success, tech companies make for great candidates for <large organization>.
- jonas21 5y ago
  This is also important to keep in mind when reading articles about less well-liked companies, e.g. Facebook, Amazon, etc.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    So Apple joined them now it seems.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- o8r3oFTZPE 5y ago
  Who invented "clickbait". What is the purpose of "clickbait". Non-profits supporting investigative journalism like MuckRock are to blame. MuckRock is not selling advertising, but don't be fooled. Investigative journalism will just create more clickbait. Whereas Big Tech companies have nothing to do with clickbait nor advertising. They are not spreading clickbait like non-profits that submit FOIA requests. Tech companies do not make money from clickbait nor eyeballs. Tech companies have sources of non-advertising revenue and legitimate business purposes that benefit society. In 2012, EFF filed over 200 FOIA requests through MuckRock, for information about drone usage. EFF should stop participating in these clickbait campaigns. EFF should be protecting Apple from low hanging clickbait. We should be thanking Big Tech companies not scrutinising them. They mind their own business, they do not try to learn what their users/customers are doing. They respect user/customer privacy. OTOH, these non-profits submitting FOIA requests do not respect the privacy of Apple and governments, who deserve to be left alone, to do their work in private. This is a basic human right. Why don't people trust Big Tech. Tech companies have done nothing wrong.
  - infogulch 5y ago
    Is this satire?
    - xvector 5y ago
      Yes
  - kbenson 5y ago
    If you haven't heard of it, you might be interested in Poe's law.[1] If you have... well you don't have much excuse, do you? ;) 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
lscotte 5y ago
As predicted. say anything that casts Apple in a negative light here on HN and get instantly modded down. It's OK, I expected it.
- user-the-name 5y ago
  You talk about a "reality distortion field", but you are the one here who is just making things up.
- Lamad123 5y ago
  These sheeple become wolves with sharp teeth when defending their. "Bottle of mine, it's you I've always wanted! Bottle of mine, why was I ever decanted?"
tester89 5y ago
Sorry, which ISO standard?
- CalChris 5y ago
  ISO 18013-5 mDL mobile driver’s license standard https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/09/apple-announces-first-states-to-adopt-drivers-licenses-and-state-ids-in-wallet/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/09/apple-announces-first...
  - judge2020 5y ago
    Would be nice if these standards were open. Can't audit it until it's introduced in iOS 15.x, I guess. Edit for reference: https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:iso-iec:18013:-5:dis:ed-1:v1:en https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:iso-iec:18013:-5:dis:ed-...
    - skissane 5y ago
      Having a look at your link, I see section A.3.10 is proposing the use case "Vote or register to vote". Given how politically controversial the issue of voter ID is in some places (especially the US), I'm wondering if this this ISO standard is going to get mixed up in that political controversy.
      - dhritzkiv 5y ago
        Perhaps it's because it's only controversial to some, and only in the United States. And the fact that this "issue" is magnified by mass media. It honestly isn't that controversial of an idea: a document stating that you're already registered to vote. That's it. This is how it works in Canada: the address that Elections Canada has on hand for you (if any) is sent a flat piece of paper –not in an envelope either– that simply indicates that you're pre-registered to vote, and includes your home address, your polling location, and your poll number (which poll worker station you go to). The poll worker verifies your information with a second piece of information with your name + address: driver's license, passport, or piece of mail from a utility company, etc. Personally, it'd be nice if I could opt to not receive and to not have to carry a piece of paper in the mail, and it sounds like this ISO standard + implementation can achieve that. (I'm guessing – I can't actually access the document)
joekrill 5y ago
Did you read the emails, though? They certainly don't sound like simply asking about "where they are on the mDL standard". They are asking for NDAs to be signed - why is that necessary if this is just about the progress of implementing an ISO standard? And there's this from CA: > The agreement I've been provided goes beyond a POC and appears to create more of a long term relationship.
- crooked-v 5y ago
  > They are asking for NDAs to be signed - why is that necessary if this is just about the progress of implementing an ISO standard? I'd assume there's something in there about Apple sharing their product roadmap and planning, so they can get all the ducks in a row for a unified launch rather than support coming in piecemeal.
  - Isamu 5y ago
    They did a reveal during the keynote of the states they are currently supporting for IDs. It is standard Apple to be secretive until the announcement.
- kelnos 5y ago
  I agree that it's interesting and useful, but the article also tries to spread some FUD about this being "Apple's standard" when it's not (with some fearmongering rhetoric around "what about Android?", "what about other competing systems we haven't heard of yet?"); it's an ISO standard for mobile driver's licenses. I'm actually surprised and pleased that Apple has decided to go with a standard instead of doing their own thing, as usual. But the author of the article either a) can't be bothered to do some basic research about the topic she's writing about, or b) is deliberately stirring up (fake) controversy to increase engagement. Either thing is pretty bad.
- jrockway 5y ago
  They asked and their request was rejected. Never hurts to ask!
- user-the-name 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
fulafel 5y ago
What do you see the ISO standard as modifying here? There are zillions of standards after all, most not implemented by Apple and of the implemented ones, many are results of corporate lobbying or interests. Being a published standard doesn't mean it's somehow in the public interest or there is pressure to implement it.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

One formula for low hanging clickbait is <large organization> + <conspiratorial topic> = plausible deniability for exploring option of malicious intent regardless of lack of evidence. And due to their success, tech companies make for great candidates for <large organization>.

jonas21 5y ago
This is also important to keep in mind when reading articles about less well-liked companies, e.g. Facebook, Amazon, etc.
- fsflover 5y ago
  So Apple joined them now it seems.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
o8r3oFTZPE 5y ago
Who invented "clickbait". What is the purpose of "clickbait". Non-profits supporting investigative journalism like MuckRock are to blame. MuckRock is not selling advertising, but don't be fooled. Investigative journalism will just create more clickbait. Whereas Big Tech companies have nothing to do with clickbait nor advertising. They are not spreading clickbait like non-profits that submit FOIA requests. Tech companies do not make money from clickbait nor eyeballs. Tech companies have sources of non-advertising revenue and legitimate business purposes that benefit society. In 2012, EFF filed over 200 FOIA requests through MuckRock, for information about drone usage. EFF should stop participating in these clickbait campaigns. EFF should be protecting Apple from low hanging clickbait. We should be thanking Big Tech companies not scrutinising them. They mind their own business, they do not try to learn what their users/customers are doing. They respect user/customer privacy. OTOH, these non-profits submitting FOIA requests do not respect the privacy of Apple and governments, who deserve to be left alone, to do their work in private. This is a basic human right. Why don't people trust Big Tech. Tech companies have done nothing wrong.
- infogulch 5y ago
  Is this satire?
  - xvector 5y ago
    Yes
- kbenson 5y ago
  If you haven't heard of it, you might be interested in Poe's law.[1] If you have... well you don't have much excuse, do you? ;) 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

lscotte 5y ago

As predicted. say anything that casts Apple in a negative light here on HN and get instantly modded down. It's OK, I expected it.

user-the-name 5y ago
You talk about a "reality distortion field", but you are the one here who is just making things up.
Lamad123 5y ago
These sheeple become wolves with sharp teeth when defending their. "Bottle of mine, it's you I've always wanted! Bottle of mine, why was I ever decanted?"

tester89 5y ago

Sorry, which ISO standard?

CalChris 5y ago
ISO 18013-5 mDL mobile driver’s license standard https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/09/apple-announces-first-states-to-adopt-drivers-licenses-and-state-ids-in-wallet/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/09/apple-announces-first...
- judge2020 5y ago
  Would be nice if these standards were open. Can't audit it until it's introduced in iOS 15.x, I guess. Edit for reference: https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:iso-iec:18013:-5:dis:ed-1:v1:en https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:iso-iec:18013:-5:dis:ed-...
  - skissane 5y ago
    Having a look at your link, I see section A.3.10 is proposing the use case "Vote or register to vote". Given how politically controversial the issue of voter ID is in some places (especially the US), I'm wondering if this this ISO standard is going to get mixed up in that political controversy.
    - dhritzkiv 5y ago
      Perhaps it's because it's only controversial to some, and only in the United States. And the fact that this "issue" is magnified by mass media. It honestly isn't that controversial of an idea: a document stating that you're already registered to vote. That's it. This is how it works in Canada: the address that Elections Canada has on hand for you (if any) is sent a flat piece of paper –not in an envelope either– that simply indicates that you're pre-registered to vote, and includes your home address, your polling location, and your poll number (which poll worker station you go to). The poll worker verifies your information with a second piece of information with your name + address: driver's license, passport, or piece of mail from a utility company, etc. Personally, it'd be nice if I could opt to not receive and to not have to carry a piece of paper in the mail, and it sounds like this ISO standard + implementation can achieve that. (I'm guessing – I can't actually access the document)

joekrill 5y ago

Did you read the emails, though? They certainly don't sound like simply asking about "where they are on the mDL standard". They are asking for NDAs to be signed - why is that necessary if this is just about the progress of implementing an ISO standard? And there's this from CA: > The agreement I've been provided goes beyond a POC and appears to create more of a long term relationship.

crooked-v 5y ago
> They are asking for NDAs to be signed - why is that necessary if this is just about the progress of implementing an ISO standard? I'd assume there's something in there about Apple sharing their product roadmap and planning, so they can get all the ducks in a row for a unified launch rather than support coming in piecemeal.
- Isamu 5y ago
  They did a reveal during the keynote of the states they are currently supporting for IDs. It is standard Apple to be secretive until the announcement.
kelnos 5y ago
I agree that it's interesting and useful, but the article also tries to spread some FUD about this being "Apple's standard" when it's not (with some fearmongering rhetoric around "what about Android?", "what about other competing systems we haven't heard of yet?"); it's an ISO standard for mobile driver's licenses. I'm actually surprised and pleased that Apple has decided to go with a standard instead of doing their own thing, as usual. But the author of the article either a) can't be bothered to do some basic research about the topic she's writing about, or b) is deliberately stirring up (fake) controversy to increase engagement. Either thing is pretty bad.
jrockway 5y ago
They asked and their request was rejected. Never hurts to ask!
user-the-name 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

fulafel 5y ago

What do you see the ISO standard as modifying here? There are zillions of standards after all, most not implemented by Apple and of the implemented ones, many are results of corporate lobbying or interests. Being a published standard doesn't mean it's somehow in the public interest or there is pressure to implement it.