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> Why "telling" them appears to work is a mystery. I think you're reading too much into myth and folklore. There's no real evidence for these practices ... but

> Why "telling" them appears to work is a mystery. I think you're reading too much into myth and folklore. There's no real evidence for these practices ... but there doesn't need to be. It's not about whether the phenomenon is real, it's about a fun myth.

LamdbaMamba 5y ago
Well... maybe. Whenever I see folklore like this I always suspect there are real effects but they may be attributed incorrectly. For instance, an ancient Greek feels sick, and worships at the temple of Apollo to ask the god to heal him. The Greek starts feeling a bit better when they leave. Apollo or the placebo effect? My first thought with telling the bees is that just speaking our thoughts to an impartial third party can help ease our burdens and make us feel better. Maybe it's a therapist, a stranger at the bar, or a garden of bees. Now this doesn't explain the supposed effect of bees dying/leaving if the practice is not followed, but it could explain why the practice continues.
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  > Apollo or the placebo effect? Note that the placebo effect is not about real improvement perceived by the sufferer except in a few very specific symptoms (pain, high blood pressure, and some psychiatric illnesses, mostly). In most cases, the placebo effect is simply optimistic interpretation/collection of data by people wanting to see the medicine work.
  - smaddox 5y ago
    I'm curious why you think this. Is there some research to support this view? From what I've read, the placebo effect seems quite real, with quite physical effects. And the surgical placebo effect is stronger than the medicinal placebo effect. It's not so absurd if you fully accept that the connection between mind and body is bidirectional.
    - andyjohnson0 5y ago
      Placebos aren't curative. It's well known that they can affect a subject's perception of how their condition is progressing, and this may have physical consequences: e.g. a reduction in psychological stress leading to reduced blood pressure, etc. But the placebo won't affect the underlying condition. They don't make the brain somehow cure the body. Quote: "Placebos won't lower your cholesterol or shrink a tumor. Instead, placebos work on symptoms modulated by the brain, like the perception of pain. "Placebos may make you feel better, but they will not cure you,"... "They have been shown to be most effective for conditions like pain management, stress-related insomnia, and cancer treatment side effects like fatigue and nausea." https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-the-placebo-effect https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-th...
    - philwelch 5y ago
      There are multiple factors that contribute to the placebo effect. The psychosomatic response is one of them. "Optimistic interpretation/collection of data by people wanting to see the medicine work" is another factor, but one that's typically removed by double-blinding. With some conditions, just plain reversion-to-the-mean is also part of the placebo effect--if you take a pill to cure your headache and your headache goes away, who's to say the headache wouldn't have gone away of its own accord anyway?
      - austinjp 5y ago
        Hmmm nit picking but I think regression to the mean is different from placebo. Regression to the mean: most headaches go away within a few hours. Placebo: your favourite brand of paracetamol seems to cure headaches quicker than the unbranded version. They can interact, of course.
        tsimionescu 5y ago
        Placebo refers to any effect where a patient's outcomes seem to improve for reasons not related to the specific intervention attempted. Regression to the mean, incorrect data collection, psycho-somatic effects etc are all elements of placebo, in various degrees in various instances.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- mkmk 5y ago
  Maybe it's as simple as a tradition that helps make sure that nobody forgets to take care of the beehives (an important part of a community's agricultural infrastructure) when somebody dies or leaves the home (due to marriage, etc.)
  - TimTheTinker 5y ago
    That's an excellent observation.

LamdbaMamba 5y ago

Well... maybe. Whenever I see folklore like this I always suspect there are real effects but they may be attributed incorrectly. For instance, an ancient Greek feels sick, and worships at the temple of Apollo to ask the god to heal him. The Greek starts feeling a bit better when they leave. Apollo or the placebo effect? My first thought with telling the bees is that just speaking our thoughts to an impartial third party can help ease our burdens and make us feel better. Maybe it's a therapist, a stranger at the bar, or a garden of bees. Now this doesn't explain the supposed effect of bees dying/leaving if the practice is not followed, but it could explain why the practice continues.

tsimionescu 5y ago
> Apollo or the placebo effect? Note that the placebo effect is not about real improvement perceived by the sufferer except in a few very specific symptoms (pain, high blood pressure, and some psychiatric illnesses, mostly). In most cases, the placebo effect is simply optimistic interpretation/collection of data by people wanting to see the medicine work.
- smaddox 5y ago
  I'm curious why you think this. Is there some research to support this view? From what I've read, the placebo effect seems quite real, with quite physical effects. And the surgical placebo effect is stronger than the medicinal placebo effect. It's not so absurd if you fully accept that the connection between mind and body is bidirectional.
  - andyjohnson0 5y ago
    Placebos aren't curative. It's well known that they can affect a subject's perception of how their condition is progressing, and this may have physical consequences: e.g. a reduction in psychological stress leading to reduced blood pressure, etc. But the placebo won't affect the underlying condition. They don't make the brain somehow cure the body. Quote: "Placebos won't lower your cholesterol or shrink a tumor. Instead, placebos work on symptoms modulated by the brain, like the perception of pain. "Placebos may make you feel better, but they will not cure you,"... "They have been shown to be most effective for conditions like pain management, stress-related insomnia, and cancer treatment side effects like fatigue and nausea." https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-the-placebo-effect https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-th...
  - philwelch 5y ago
    There are multiple factors that contribute to the placebo effect. The psychosomatic response is one of them. "Optimistic interpretation/collection of data by people wanting to see the medicine work" is another factor, but one that's typically removed by double-blinding. With some conditions, just plain reversion-to-the-mean is also part of the placebo effect--if you take a pill to cure your headache and your headache goes away, who's to say the headache wouldn't have gone away of its own accord anyway?
    - austinjp 5y ago
      Hmmm nit picking but I think regression to the mean is different from placebo. Regression to the mean: most headaches go away within a few hours. Placebo: your favourite brand of paracetamol seems to cure headaches quicker than the unbranded version. They can interact, of course.
      - tsimionescu 5y ago
        Placebo refers to any effect where a patient's outcomes seem to improve for reasons not related to the specific intervention attempted. Regression to the mean, incorrect data collection, psycho-somatic effects etc are all elements of placebo, in various degrees in various instances.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
mkmk 5y ago
Maybe it's as simple as a tradition that helps make sure that nobody forgets to take care of the beehives (an important part of a community's agricultural infrastructure) when somebody dies or leaves the home (due to marriage, etc.)
- TimTheTinker 5y ago
  That's an excellent observation.