7 ms·

Alexander von Humboldt: the first Solarpunk

102 points by artpi 5y ago

dougmwne 5y ago
I'm fresh off a visit to the Technisches Museum in Vienna which has an absolutely superb collection of steam-age technology from the first and second industrial revolutions. It is a steampunk's playground. The collection also does an awesome job of putting the past 300 years of technical progress into a kind of perspective. I am an environmentalist, but the objections to heavy industry seem a bit quaint when faced with the weight and capability of all modern society. Maybe I'm a bit humbled right now. It seems increasingly ridiculous that we could solve our pollution problems with solar panels and trees and equally ridiculous that we could put any of our magic back in Pandora's box. I'm not sure what the solution is. Maybe there isn't one but to deal with the consequences as best we can.
- artpi 5y ago
  Hey, OP here. The problem won't solve itself and we have to be wary of greenwashing. But as John Carmack says, we need tales to inspire, not tales to condemn. If we set our goals as just mediating damage, that's what we'll do. Only by having more ambitious goals, we will find out what's possible. Yes, we have work to do.
  - dougmwne 5y ago
    Per aspera ad astra.
- hosh 5y ago
  I have been disappointed with Solarpunk as a movement, aestheric, and literary genre. Have you looked into the groups like permaculture, regenerative agriculture, Stamet’s work with mycology, Dr John Todd’s work on ecovats ? The earthship designs? What about the practices Cuba had to adopt when they were under embargo, and could no longer import oil or synthetic fertilizer? There are a lot of things we can do. There are already solutions that work. People are doing them. They require a shift in how you view the world. By comparison, solar panels and wind turbines are simplistic solutions that do not adequately address these problems. I am coming to the conclusion that more technology will not solve these problems because the world view and paradigm that spawned these technologies are what lead us here. That rather than viewing the world as if it were mechanisms that can be reduced to isolated, cause-and-effects, and solutions that come from acting upon things in the system through the application of some kind of force, one can see the world as a living system, that is capable of growth of regeneration. This not only includes ecologies and our individual bodies, but also organizations, businesses, communities, and technologies.
  - sverona 5y ago
    What exactly is your criticism? Saying "more technology will solve it!" is not really the point of solarpunk. Most of the solarpunks I know, including myself, are also broadly described as anarchists. "A shift in how you view the world" is something that happened to us long ago.
    - hosh 5y ago
      I was talking about a shift from a Machine Worldview to that of a Living Systems Worldview. You can be an anarchist with or without that kind of a shift. Perhaps you could share your views of solarpunk. Maybe I don’t really understand it and I just see it as slapping a bunch of solar panels on houses.
      - pkdpic 5y ago
        I kind of dig the visual of solarpunk just being a bunch of millennials slapping solar panels on houses and Ive shared some version of the same concern I think. In any case sorry to tag along on the thread but Im a dev and visual artist trying to find some way to get more involved with part of the solarpunk community. Binge-reading Kim Stanley Robinson right now but totally isolated. Anybody have a discord or irc suggestion or anything?
      - ahevia 5y ago
        A decent video on the topic: https://youtu.be/u3aauiR9M88 https://youtu.be/u3aauiR9M88 Just to add my +1. I have also never seen Solarpunk as a "just slap solar panels on houses" but rather using the minimum possible technology to enhance what nature has to offer and live alongside it. Kind of like mixing the practices indigenous peoples with minimalist tech. The Cuba example you used is nice. After my family fled Cuba they worked hard to ensure our household kept many of the same cultural practices. That partially informs my view of Solarpunk as well.
      - sverona 5y ago
        So there's a climate apocalypse coming. I spent a while being blackpilled on it until I tried to hurt myself because of the stress that put on me mentally. I view solarpunk as being the things that you mentioned (some of which I wasn't aware of, thanks!) plus a general attitude of "yes, things are very bad, and they're gonna get worse, but we'll work now so we can live later, we'll meet the challenge in some way, we'll fight capitalism and kyriarchy, we'll build community, we'll build resilient structures, we'll live." Are these foolish hopes? They might be. But I'd rather hope foolishly than be a collapsenik who truly believes there is nothing left to live for.
- mym1990 5y ago
  I think you meant to say "Maybe I'm a bit Humboldt right now" ;) couldn't pass up the chance.
Aaronstotle 5y ago
I am almost finished with a book about Humboldt (Invention of Nature by Andrea Wulf). It's been a fantastic read, and I was surprised/ashamed that I hadn't known anything about Humboldt until earlier this year.
- artpi 5y ago
  That's where all quotes in this article come from! Fantastic book.
- NelsonMinar 5y ago
  Humboldt is strangely forgotten these days. He was an enormous figure in his time and soon after, in the 19th century. An ideal heir to the Age of Enlightenment. There's places named for him all over the world. But now his name mostly gets a confused shrug.
  - carapace 5y ago
    IIRC this was addressed in that book: his repute was tarnished by the wave of anti-German sentiment stemming from WWI.
- tagami 5y ago
  +1 on Wulf's book. A good weekend read!
hosh 5y ago
So … what about the numerous indigenous people who saw the world in interconnection and lived in an ecologically balanced way?
- TeMPOraL 5y ago
  Name three. I can't think of a single society in the history of the planet that "saw the world in interconnection and lived in an ecologically balanced way". It would be hard, given that it's only for about a 100 years that we actually have any clue about ecological balance, and have both biological knowledge and theoretical tools[0] to think about the environment as a whole. Known groups were usually expanding as much as they could and strip-mining their immediate environment, and their main limits were manpower and wars with other groups. -- [0] - Such as feedback loops, courtesy of cybernetics, and calculus underlying it.
  - carapace 5y ago
    Have you seen the movie "The Gods Must be Crazy"? I don't know if they're a good example but the !Kung seemed to live an idyllic life of ecological and social harmony.
    - TeMPOraL 5y ago
      I haven't, I'll check it out. From what little I read about them, they were at times committing infanticide, so their life probably wasn't as idyllic as it would seem.
      - carapace 5y ago
        ncmncm could be right in that sib comment, it's not an anthropological documentary. > they were at times committing infanticide, so their life probably wasn't as idyllic as it would seem. I'm not sure how to respond to this. Infanticide is tragic, but they don't have condoms nor doctors who can perform abortions, so...? They live in a harsh environment (in the Kalahari Desert) so the ecological effects of overpopulation would be pretty evident to them, I imagine. They're not "expanding as much as they could and strip-mining their immediate environment", eh? But (if the movie is not a fable) they seem pretty happy.
baybal2 5y ago
What in the world is Solarpunk?
- mym1990 5y ago
  "Solarpunk is an art movement that envisions how the future might look if humanity succeeded in solving major contemporary challenges with an emphasis on sustainability problems such as climate change and pollution. Solarpunk describes a multitude of media such as literature, fine arts, architecture, fashion, music, tattoos, and video games in a similar manner to adjacent movements such as steampunk and cyberpunk as well as more established art movements like Baroque and Art Nouveau and Impressionism. The iconography of Solarpunk focuses on renewable energies such as solar and wind power."
duckkg5 5y ago
The Invention of Nature by Andrea Wulf is a fantastic, highly recommended read. It covers Humboldt’s life as an adventuring proto-scientist as well as the impact he’s had on the world’s great scientific and artistic minds (Darwin, Goethe, many more). Despite his huge impact, the world has mostly forgotten about him, sadly.
lvs 5y ago
How is this "movement" more than a rebranding of the tech optimists of the past? It reads as a pathetic response to the meagerest of efforts to go back to the tech optimists and technofuturists, or whatever these industrialists and capitalists pretentiously called themselves, to show them how wrong they were. Now you're all just trying to turn that frown upside down with greenwashing masquerading as philosophy. Anything to keep the capital flowing through the door and down the drain.
gbertasius 5y ago
Pretty cool. Just listened to a podcast where they talked about solarpunk. I appreciate the movement for its optimistic outlook of integrating humanity with nature as opposed to the dystopian cyberpunk narratives we see where everything is techno-centric and completely apart from the natural place we originate from.
tkgally 5y ago
Some books about and by Alexander von Humboldt at the Internet Archive: Lives of the Brothers Humboldt, Alexander and William (1852) https://archive.org/details/livesofbrothersh01klen https://archive.org/details/livesofbrothersh01klen The Travels and Researches of Alexander von Humboldt (1857) https://archive.org/details/travelsresearche00humb https://archive.org/details/travelsresearche00humb The Life, Travels and Books of Alexander von Humboldt (1859) https://archive.org/details/lifetravelsbooks00stod/ https://archive.org/details/lifetravelsbooks00stod/ Darwin and Humboldt: Their Lives and Work (1883) https://archive.org/details/101597985.nlm.nih.gov/ https://archive.org/details/101597985.nlm.nih.gov/ Researches Concerning the Institutions & Monuments of the Ancient Inhabitants of America: With Descriptions & Views of Some of the Most Striking Scenes in the Cordilleras! (English translation, 1814) https://archive.org/details/researchesconce121814humb https://archive.org/details/researchesconce121814humb Cosmos: A Sketch of a Physical Description of the Universe (English translation, 1866) https://archive.org/details/sketchofphcosmos01humbrich https://archive.org/details/sketchofphcosmos01humbrich https://archive.org/details/sketchofphcosmos02humbrich https://archive.org/details/sketchofphcosmos02humbrich https://archive.org/details/sketchofphcosmos03humbrich https://archive.org/details/sketchofphcosmos03humbrich https://archive.org/details/sketchofphcosmos04humbrich https://archive.org/details/sketchofphcosmos04humbrich Many more here: https://archive.org/search.php?query=Alexander%20von%20Humboldt%20AND%20mediatype%3Atexts https://archive.org/search.php?query=Alexander%20von%20Humbo...

102 points by artpi 5y ago

I'm fresh off a visit to the Technisches Museum in Vienna which has an absolutely superb collection of steam-age technology from the first and second industrial revolutions. It is a steampunk's playground. The collection also does an awesome job of putting the past 300 years of technical progress into a kind of perspective. I am an environmentalist, but the objections to heavy industry seem a bit quaint when faced with the weight and capability of all modern society. Maybe I'm a bit humbled right now. It seems increasingly ridiculous that we could solve our pollution problems with solar panels and trees and equally ridiculous that we could put any of our magic back in Pandora's box. I'm not sure what the solution is. Maybe there isn't one but to deal with the consequences as best we can.

artpi 5y ago
Hey, OP here. The problem won't solve itself and we have to be wary of greenwashing. But as John Carmack says, we need tales to inspire, not tales to condemn. If we set our goals as just mediating damage, that's what we'll do. Only by having more ambitious goals, we will find out what's possible. Yes, we have work to do.
- dougmwne 5y ago
  Per aspera ad astra.
hosh 5y ago
I have been disappointed with Solarpunk as a movement, aestheric, and literary genre. Have you looked into the groups like permaculture, regenerative agriculture, Stamet’s work with mycology, Dr John Todd’s work on ecovats ? The earthship designs? What about the practices Cuba had to adopt when they were under embargo, and could no longer import oil or synthetic fertilizer? There are a lot of things we can do. There are already solutions that work. People are doing them. They require a shift in how you view the world. By comparison, solar panels and wind turbines are simplistic solutions that do not adequately address these problems. I am coming to the conclusion that more technology will not solve these problems because the world view and paradigm that spawned these technologies are what lead us here. That rather than viewing the world as if it were mechanisms that can be reduced to isolated, cause-and-effects, and solutions that come from acting upon things in the system through the application of some kind of force, one can see the world as a living system, that is capable of growth of regeneration. This not only includes ecologies and our individual bodies, but also organizations, businesses, communities, and technologies.
- sverona 5y ago
  What exactly is your criticism? Saying "more technology will solve it!" is not really the point of solarpunk. Most of the solarpunks I know, including myself, are also broadly described as anarchists. "A shift in how you view the world" is something that happened to us long ago.
  - hosh 5y ago
    I was talking about a shift from a Machine Worldview to that of a Living Systems Worldview. You can be an anarchist with or without that kind of a shift. Perhaps you could share your views of solarpunk. Maybe I don’t really understand it and I just see it as slapping a bunch of solar panels on houses.
    - pkdpic 5y ago
      I kind of dig the visual of solarpunk just being a bunch of millennials slapping solar panels on houses and Ive shared some version of the same concern I think. In any case sorry to tag along on the thread but Im a dev and visual artist trying to find some way to get more involved with part of the solarpunk community. Binge-reading Kim Stanley Robinson right now but totally isolated. Anybody have a discord or irc suggestion or anything?
    - ahevia 5y ago
      A decent video on the topic: https://youtu.be/u3aauiR9M88 https://youtu.be/u3aauiR9M88 Just to add my +1. I have also never seen Solarpunk as a "just slap solar panels on houses" but rather using the minimum possible technology to enhance what nature has to offer and live alongside it. Kind of like mixing the practices indigenous peoples with minimalist tech. The Cuba example you used is nice. After my family fled Cuba they worked hard to ensure our household kept many of the same cultural practices. That partially informs my view of Solarpunk as well.
    - sverona 5y ago
      So there's a climate apocalypse coming. I spent a while being blackpilled on it until I tried to hurt myself because of the stress that put on me mentally. I view solarpunk as being the things that you mentioned (some of which I wasn't aware of, thanks!) plus a general attitude of "yes, things are very bad, and they're gonna get worse, but we'll work now so we can live later, we'll meet the challenge in some way, we'll fight capitalism and kyriarchy, we'll build community, we'll build resilient structures, we'll live." Are these foolish hopes? They might be. But I'd rather hope foolishly than be a collapsenik who truly believes there is nothing left to live for.
mym1990 5y ago
I think you meant to say "Maybe I'm a bit Humboldt right now" ;) couldn't pass up the chance.

Aaronstotle 5y ago

I am almost finished with a book about Humboldt (Invention of Nature by Andrea Wulf). It's been a fantastic read, and I was surprised/ashamed that I hadn't known anything about Humboldt until earlier this year.

artpi 5y ago
That's where all quotes in this article come from! Fantastic book.
NelsonMinar 5y ago
Humboldt is strangely forgotten these days. He was an enormous figure in his time and soon after, in the 19th century. An ideal heir to the Age of Enlightenment. There's places named for him all over the world. But now his name mostly gets a confused shrug.
- carapace 5y ago
  IIRC this was addressed in that book: his repute was tarnished by the wave of anti-German sentiment stemming from WWI.
tagami 5y ago
+1 on Wulf's book. A good weekend read!

hosh 5y ago

So … what about the numerous indigenous people who saw the world in interconnection and lived in an ecologically balanced way?

TeMPOraL 5y ago
Name three. I can't think of a single society in the history of the planet that "saw the world in interconnection and lived in an ecologically balanced way". It would be hard, given that it's only for about a 100 years that we actually have any clue about ecological balance, and have both biological knowledge and theoretical tools[0] to think about the environment as a whole. Known groups were usually expanding as much as they could and strip-mining their immediate environment, and their main limits were manpower and wars with other groups. -- [0] - Such as feedback loops, courtesy of cybernetics, and calculus underlying it.
- carapace 5y ago
  Have you seen the movie "The Gods Must be Crazy"? I don't know if they're a good example but the !Kung seemed to live an idyllic life of ecological and social harmony.
  - TeMPOraL 5y ago
    I haven't, I'll check it out. From what little I read about them, they were at times committing infanticide, so their life probably wasn't as idyllic as it would seem.
    - carapace 5y ago
      ncmncm could be right in that sib comment, it's not an anthropological documentary. > they were at times committing infanticide, so their life probably wasn't as idyllic as it would seem. I'm not sure how to respond to this. Infanticide is tragic, but they don't have condoms nor doctors who can perform abortions, so...? They live in a harsh environment (in the Kalahari Desert) so the ecological effects of overpopulation would be pretty evident to them, I imagine. They're not "expanding as much as they could and strip-mining their immediate environment", eh? But (if the movie is not a fable) they seem pretty happy.

baybal2 5y ago

What in the world is Solarpunk?

mym1990 5y ago
"Solarpunk is an art movement that envisions how the future might look if humanity succeeded in solving major contemporary challenges with an emphasis on sustainability problems such as climate change and pollution. Solarpunk describes a multitude of media such as literature, fine arts, architecture, fashion, music, tattoos, and video games in a similar manner to adjacent movements such as steampunk and cyberpunk as well as more established art movements like Baroque and Art Nouveau and Impressionism. The iconography of Solarpunk focuses on renewable energies such as solar and wind power."

duckkg5 5y ago

The Invention of Nature by Andrea Wulf is a fantastic, highly recommended read. It covers Humboldt’s life as an adventuring proto-scientist as well as the impact he’s had on the world’s great scientific and artistic minds (Darwin, Goethe, many more). Despite his huge impact, the world has mostly forgotten about him, sadly.

lvs 5y ago

How is this "movement" more than a rebranding of the tech optimists of the past? It reads as a pathetic response to the meagerest of efforts to go back to the tech optimists and technofuturists, or whatever these industrialists and capitalists pretentiously called themselves, to show them how wrong they were. Now you're all just trying to turn that frown upside down with greenwashing masquerading as philosophy. Anything to keep the capital flowing through the door and down the drain.

gbertasius 5y ago

Pretty cool. Just listened to a podcast where they talked about solarpunk. I appreciate the movement for its optimistic outlook of integrating humanity with nature as opposed to the dystopian cyberpunk narratives we see where everything is techno-centric and completely apart from the natural place we originate from.

tkgally 5y ago

Some books about and by Alexander von Humboldt at the Internet Archive: Lives of the Brothers Humboldt, Alexander and William (1852) https://archive.org/details/livesofbrothersh01klen https://archive.org/details/livesofbrothersh01klen The Travels and Researches of Alexander von Humboldt (1857) https://archive.org/details/travelsresearche00humb https://archive.org/details/travelsresearche00humb The Life, Travels and Books of Alexander von Humboldt (1859) https://archive.org/details/lifetravelsbooks00stod/ https://archive.org/details/lifetravelsbooks00stod/ Darwin and Humboldt: Their Lives and Work (1883) https://archive.org/details/101597985.nlm.nih.gov/ https://archive.org/details/101597985.nlm.nih.gov/ Researches Concerning the Institutions & Monuments of the Ancient Inhabitants of America: With Descriptions & Views of Some of the Most Striking Scenes in the Cordilleras! (English translation, 1814) https://archive.org/details/researchesconce121814humb https://archive.org/details/researchesconce121814humb Cosmos: A Sketch of a Physical Description of the Universe (English translation, 1866) https://archive.org/details/sketchofphcosmos01humbrich https://archive.org/details/sketchofphcosmos01humbrich https://archive.org/details/sketchofphcosmos02humbrich https://archive.org/details/sketchofphcosmos02humbrich https://archive.org/details/sketchofphcosmos03humbrich https://archive.org/details/sketchofphcosmos03humbrich https://archive.org/details/sketchofphcosmos04humbrich https://archive.org/details/sketchofphcosmos04humbrich Many more here: https://archive.org/search.php?query=Alexander%20von%20Humboldt%20AND%20mediatype%3Atexts https://archive.org/search.php?query=Alexander%20von%20Humbo...