5 ms·

If you step outside of the HN language of the month bubble, you'll see lots of boring companies using languages like PHP and C#. They're not flashy, but they're

by vgeek 5y ago

If you step outside of the HN language of the month bubble, you'll see lots of boring companies using languages like PHP and C#. They're not flashy, but they're used everywhere and aren't going anywhere. Sure, they'll be back office type jobs, but they will be stable with good enough benefits and probably won't tolerate rewriting the entire stack in the latest technology every 6 months. Then layer on JS/CSS with whichever backend language you like and you should be fairly safe. Stack Overflow's survey may be useful to look at, too. https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#most-popular-technologies-language-prof https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#most-popular-...

saberience 5y ago
Lots of boring companies using C#? You know, many top unicorns use C#, many top gaming companies use C# (including Blizzard). Just because you have some weird anti Microsoft-bias doesn't mean there's anything inherently wrong or "boring" with C#
- beardyw 5y ago
  Just checked the parent's past comments and I don't see how you can say that. I think "PHP and Java" would have been just as apt but maybe not raised your hackles?
- Asraelite 5y ago
  Not GP but I didn't interpret it to mean that all C# companies are boring, or that the language itself is boring, just that many boring C# companies exist.
  - pathartl 5y ago
    Yep, the better terms to use are ones like stable or anchored. Companies that aren't trying to push the bounds of development and are just trying to work for their own business.
- vgeek 5y ago
  I didn't say C# was exclusively used by boring companies. I made no claim that it was a bad language, quite the opposite (I would probably have it in my top 5 back end languages). I'm not using boring as a derogatory adjective-- just as catch-all for non-VC/FAANG companies. If you look at "boring" or mature companies such as insurance or consumer good companies, where technology is viewed as just a tool to solve the business objective, rather than the feathers of the goose laying the golden eggs, you will find different priorities-- such as programming languages that take into consideration backwards compatibility, scalability from the start, development time and general support ecosystem.
  - isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
    And the general balls-deep buy-in into the MS ecosystem.
closeparen 5y ago
I wonder. Cost center development work seems most vulnerable to deskilling by low-code/no-code and offshoring through the increasing acceptance of remote work. Using hipster languages can be silly in a lot of ways, but it at least communicates that a company is very developer centric.
- aynyc 5y ago
  Enterprises have been trying to outsource development for the last two decades and failed miserably. The low-code/no-code trend is mostly a bust like AI/ML. Chasing hipster languages is rat race. If you are strong in Java, with reasonable professional behavior and don't live in the middle of nowhere, you'll make decent money for a long time.
  - closeparen 5y ago
    They failed miserably at getting things done with remote workers, which is indeed difficult, but there's no longer any alternative.
    - aynyc 5y ago
      You confused remote workers with offshore outsourcing. There is a huge difference.
      - closeparen 5y ago
        The point of remote workers is it doesn't make a huge difference where they are.
        closeparen 5y ago
        I would genuinely like to know what you think makes remote workers in the same country so much more effective than remote workers in different countries. And how you explain the constant references to globally distributed teams in the remote-work literature (Basecamp, GitLab) if those are such different things.
Uehreka 5y ago
> rewriting the entire stack with the latest technology After seeing a couple C# companies do expensive switchovers to .NET Core, this part made me chuckle.
- cableshaft 5y ago
  And a Blazor rewrite of the frontend shortly behind that, if they haven't already. My previous company had to rewrite a bunch of its old (~7 year old) code from Silverlight just before I started working there too. We also rewrote the front-end of some apps from AngularJS to Angular 2+ while I was there (and their older apps had some jQuery and Knockout code still in there), which took some time also.
goodpoint 5y ago
> you'll see lots of boring companies using languages like PHP and C# Rather, you'll see a lot of companies using tons of C++, C and, to a lesser extent, Java. A lot of those companies do very serious stuff, like automotive, industrial automation, aerospace, home appliances instead of some "uber for dog walkers".

by vgeek 5y ago

saberience 5y ago

Lots of boring companies using C#? You know, many top unicorns use C#, many top gaming companies use C# (including Blizzard). Just because you have some weird anti Microsoft-bias doesn't mean there's anything inherently wrong or "boring" with C#

beardyw 5y ago
Just checked the parent's past comments and I don't see how you can say that. I think "PHP and Java" would have been just as apt but maybe not raised your hackles?
Asraelite 5y ago
Not GP but I didn't interpret it to mean that all C# companies are boring, or that the language itself is boring, just that many boring C# companies exist.
- pathartl 5y ago
  Yep, the better terms to use are ones like stable or anchored. Companies that aren't trying to push the bounds of development and are just trying to work for their own business.
vgeek 5y ago
I didn't say C# was exclusively used by boring companies. I made no claim that it was a bad language, quite the opposite (I would probably have it in my top 5 back end languages). I'm not using boring as a derogatory adjective-- just as catch-all for non-VC/FAANG companies. If you look at "boring" or mature companies such as insurance or consumer good companies, where technology is viewed as just a tool to solve the business objective, rather than the feathers of the goose laying the golden eggs, you will find different priorities-- such as programming languages that take into consideration backwards compatibility, scalability from the start, development time and general support ecosystem.
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
  And the general balls-deep buy-in into the MS ecosystem.

closeparen 5y ago

I wonder. Cost center development work seems most vulnerable to deskilling by low-code/no-code and offshoring through the increasing acceptance of remote work. Using hipster languages can be silly in a lot of ways, but it at least communicates that a company is very developer centric.

aynyc 5y ago
Enterprises have been trying to outsource development for the last two decades and failed miserably. The low-code/no-code trend is mostly a bust like AI/ML. Chasing hipster languages is rat race. If you are strong in Java, with reasonable professional behavior and don't live in the middle of nowhere, you'll make decent money for a long time.
- closeparen 5y ago
  They failed miserably at getting things done with remote workers, which is indeed difficult, but there's no longer any alternative.
  - aynyc 5y ago
    You confused remote workers with offshore outsourcing. There is a huge difference.
    - closeparen 5y ago
      The point of remote workers is it doesn't make a huge difference where they are.
      - closeparen 5y ago
        I would genuinely like to know what you think makes remote workers in the same country so much more effective than remote workers in different countries. And how you explain the constant references to globally distributed teams in the remote-work literature (Basecamp, GitLab) if those are such different things.

Uehreka 5y ago

> rewriting the entire stack with the latest technology After seeing a couple C# companies do expensive switchovers to .NET Core, this part made me chuckle.

cableshaft 5y ago
And a Blazor rewrite of the frontend shortly behind that, if they haven't already. My previous company had to rewrite a bunch of its old (~7 year old) code from Silverlight just before I started working there too. We also rewrote the front-end of some apps from AngularJS to Angular 2+ while I was there (and their older apps had some jQuery and Knockout code still in there), which took some time also.

goodpoint 5y ago

> you'll see lots of boring companies using languages like PHP and C# Rather, you'll see a lot of companies using tons of C++, C and, to a lesser extent, Java. A lot of those companies do very serious stuff, like automotive, industrial automation, aerospace, home appliances instead of some "uber for dog walkers".