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Topics like this bring modern attitudes about identity to a tricky spot. A common view is that you aren't defined by XYZ, you can choose your identity and who y

Topics like this bring modern attitudes about identity to a tricky spot. A common view is that you aren't defined by XYZ, you can choose your identity and who you are or what you do. In reality, things like lead poisoning have a very powerful and undeniable impact on who you are and what you can do, e.g. > Slow development of normal childhood behaviors, such as talking and use of words, and permanent intellectual disability are both commonly seen. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Effects_on_children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Effects_on_chil... If lead is really a widespread problem, and especially if it continues worsening, then we'll eventually reach a point where we need to identify individuals who have been impacted by lead and ideally take pre-emptive measures to help them with the consequences of it. This makes me wonder how people with more woke attitudes approach other group-specific issues like sickle cell anemia in black people or myopia in Asian and Jewish people. In these cases, being XYZ does define you and the things you're at risk for.

shadowgovt 5y ago
I can't speak for the "woke" in general, but regarding medical conditions and their prevalence depending on racial origin: there's worlds of difference between defining what credit risk somebody is based on their skin color and informing people that skin color may be a correlative indicator that the resources should be invested to test their genetics for known maladies. The first is a crime in the United States, and the second is just good medicine.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  This is actually a great example of what I mean. It's not hard to see the conflict. Let's say the group most affected by lead in the US is green people, and that most green people have some level of significant lead poisoning. That would mean that it's very likely that green people in the US have negative impacts to their cognitive development because of this lead poisoning. So to address the issue green people are having would also mean acknowledging that as a group, green people are more likely to have developmental issues, which would then create fuel for discrimination against green people. That's what I mean, I'm curious to see how that kind of situation gets handled.
- Igelau 5y ago
  > that skin color may be a correlative indicator that the resources should be invested to test their genetics for known maladies You're right, but people are still starting to call this racism. I've been in the meetings where HR hammered home the point, and I quote "race is a social construct with no biological meaning". And some our software is supposed to support medical fields :(
- fighterpilot 5y ago
  You would hope that such good medicine is possible, but thanks to woke insanity it's becoming untenable. Read the experiences of medical practitioners that show how bad it is getting: https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/ov8ew6/article_circulating_on_social_media_about_medical/ https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/ov8ew6/article_ci...
coopierez 5y ago
> people with more woke attitudes This is extremely broad and it feels like a bit of a strawman - a classic feminist issue I've heard is how office chairs are often designed more for the average height of a man, therefore subtly excluding women from the workspace. "people with more woke attitudes" would absolutely be on board with measures such as ensuring Asian people get the eye care they need (I suspect).
NineStarPoint 5y ago
I will say that, at least in the “woke” circles I notice, there is plenty of discussion about how medical knowledge is too centered around the white male. Finding studies that dig into the way race-specific biology should change medical treatment and risk factors is hard, and finding doctors who acknowledge those studies in how they think about patients is even harder.
- Wohlf 5y ago
  In my experience it's even worse than being too centered around the white male, it's too centered on a fictional 'average' person and if you fall outside that you have to research and advocate for yourself. If I have to do that as a mildly neuro-divergent white male then people less privileged than I am must be in real trouble.
  - im3w1l 5y ago
    Money is an issue though. If you want to study how every disease affects neuro-divergent middle-child women of native american descent then the cost of doing research will sky rocket. Nothing would ever get done.
- goatlover 5y ago
  Scientifically speaking, there is no "race-specific biology". Race is a social construct. But there are ethnicities which get grouped into racial categories.
  - spicymaki 5y ago
    I agree with that in general, but there are issues that affect people who are more closely related along ethnic lines. The problem is the existing course racial groupings with arbitrary selections based on culture with no scientific basis.
  - fighterpilot 5y ago
    You're going to have to elaborate for me. Given that certain races are genetically predisposed to certain diseases and conditions more than other races, how am I to make sense of your comment?
long_time_gone 5y ago
==If lead is really a widespread problem, and especially if it continues worsening, then we'll eventually reach a point where we need to identify individuals who have been impacted by lead and ideally take pre-emptive measures to help them with the consequences of it.== We can barely get the funding today to replace lead pipes, the bare minimum to try and limit exposure, I doubt we'll be tracking down individuals any time soon. * https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-push-to-replace-americas-lead-pipes-faces-challenges-11631880001 https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-push-to-replace-americas-... ==how people with more woke attitudes approach other group-specific issues== I think in this case "woke" people would try to understand and empathize with those "group-specific issues" and help develop and implement plans to solve those issues. I think we see this in the "woke" political parties leading the charge on "group-specific issues" like voting rights, indigenous rights, immigrant rights, women's reproductive rights, healthcare as a right, etc. Just look at the typical political affiliations of the three "groups" you mentioned. It might answer your question.
Pyramus 5y ago
> Topics like this bring modern attitudes about identity to a tricky spot. Not only identity but if you follow this train of thought also criminal responsibility. If I'm not mistaken there is a well known correlation between (childhood) head trauma and serial killers. I remember a case where a guy suffered brain damage in a car accident as an adult, underwent a complete change of character and committed a murder thereafter (can't remember the name though). These examples are extreme cases for sure, but the effect is much more subtle. There are studies showing that nutritious prison food leads to lower levels of violence etc.
kenjackson 5y ago
People with "woke attitudes" aren't against group-specific issues. They're against using group-specific characteristics as a way to negatively discriminate against groups or individuals in that group.

shadowgovt 5y ago

I can't speak for the "woke" in general, but regarding medical conditions and their prevalence depending on racial origin: there's worlds of difference between defining what credit risk somebody is based on their skin color and informing people that skin color may be a correlative indicator that the resources should be invested to test their genetics for known maladies. The first is a crime in the United States, and the second is just good medicine.

silicon2401 5y ago
This is actually a great example of what I mean. It's not hard to see the conflict. Let's say the group most affected by lead in the US is green people, and that most green people have some level of significant lead poisoning. That would mean that it's very likely that green people in the US have negative impacts to their cognitive development because of this lead poisoning. So to address the issue green people are having would also mean acknowledging that as a group, green people are more likely to have developmental issues, which would then create fuel for discrimination against green people. That's what I mean, I'm curious to see how that kind of situation gets handled.
Igelau 5y ago
> that skin color may be a correlative indicator that the resources should be invested to test their genetics for known maladies You're right, but people are still starting to call this racism. I've been in the meetings where HR hammered home the point, and I quote "race is a social construct with no biological meaning". And some our software is supposed to support medical fields :(
fighterpilot 5y ago
You would hope that such good medicine is possible, but thanks to woke insanity it's becoming untenable. Read the experiences of medical practitioners that show how bad it is getting: https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/ov8ew6/article_circulating_on_social_media_about_medical/ https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/ov8ew6/article_ci...

coopierez 5y ago

> people with more woke attitudes This is extremely broad and it feels like a bit of a strawman - a classic feminist issue I've heard is how office chairs are often designed more for the average height of a man, therefore subtly excluding women from the workspace. "people with more woke attitudes" would absolutely be on board with measures such as ensuring Asian people get the eye care they need (I suspect).

NineStarPoint 5y ago

I will say that, at least in the “woke” circles I notice, there is plenty of discussion about how medical knowledge is too centered around the white male. Finding studies that dig into the way race-specific biology should change medical treatment and risk factors is hard, and finding doctors who acknowledge those studies in how they think about patients is even harder.

Wohlf 5y ago
In my experience it's even worse than being too centered around the white male, it's too centered on a fictional 'average' person and if you fall outside that you have to research and advocate for yourself. If I have to do that as a mildly neuro-divergent white male then people less privileged than I am must be in real trouble.
- im3w1l 5y ago
  Money is an issue though. If you want to study how every disease affects neuro-divergent middle-child women of native american descent then the cost of doing research will sky rocket. Nothing would ever get done.
goatlover 5y ago
Scientifically speaking, there is no "race-specific biology". Race is a social construct. But there are ethnicities which get grouped into racial categories.
- spicymaki 5y ago
  I agree with that in general, but there are issues that affect people who are more closely related along ethnic lines. The problem is the existing course racial groupings with arbitrary selections based on culture with no scientific basis.
- fighterpilot 5y ago
  You're going to have to elaborate for me. Given that certain races are genetically predisposed to certain diseases and conditions more than other races, how am I to make sense of your comment?

long_time_gone 5y ago

==If lead is really a widespread problem, and especially if it continues worsening, then we'll eventually reach a point where we need to identify individuals who have been impacted by lead and ideally take pre-emptive measures to help them with the consequences of it.== We can barely get the funding today to replace lead pipes, the bare minimum to try and limit exposure, I doubt we'll be tracking down individuals any time soon. * https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-push-to-replace-americas-lead-pipes-faces-challenges-11631880001 https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-push-to-replace-americas-... ==how people with more woke attitudes approach other group-specific issues== I think in this case "woke" people would try to understand and empathize with those "group-specific issues" and help develop and implement plans to solve those issues. I think we see this in the "woke" political parties leading the charge on "group-specific issues" like voting rights, indigenous rights, immigrant rights, women's reproductive rights, healthcare as a right, etc. Just look at the typical political affiliations of the three "groups" you mentioned. It might answer your question.

Pyramus 5y ago

> Topics like this bring modern attitudes about identity to a tricky spot. Not only identity but if you follow this train of thought also criminal responsibility. If I'm not mistaken there is a well known correlation between (childhood) head trauma and serial killers. I remember a case where a guy suffered brain damage in a car accident as an adult, underwent a complete change of character and committed a murder thereafter (can't remember the name though). These examples are extreme cases for sure, but the effect is much more subtle. There are studies showing that nutritious prison food leads to lower levels of violence etc.

kenjackson 5y ago

People with "woke attitudes" aren't against group-specific issues. They're against using group-specific characteristics as a way to negatively discriminate against groups or individuals in that group.