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I mean isn't that kind of the same thing just a little bit more specific? It seems to me that he basically clarifies why other people are hellish. We absorb t

I mean isn't that kind of the same thing just a little bit more specific? It seems to me that he basically clarifies why other people are hellish. We absorb the critiques and judgements of others into our psyche and use them to forge our own identity. Which by definition is limiting our own self-actualization and freedom and torturous if that person we're influenced by is dysfunctional. Then you start to think of this in a modern mass media world where the scale of influence is global and things get even more insane.

amouat 5y ago
So I largely agree, but it's not that "other people are hellish", it's that they are, in fact, hell. Satre is using the word hell to mean "the afterlife" i.e. we live on in other people's minds and opinions whether we like it or not. Also people don't have to be dysfunctional for it to be a form of torture, we are trapped in their minds (gaze?) no matter what.
- weatherlight 5y ago
  exactly!
- nickthemagicman 5y ago
  > "other people are hellish", it's that they are, in fact, hell. I think you may have been distracted by the semantics over the ideas. I'm talking about hellish people, not hellish relations. Hell is other people. People who are hellish. How I'm using hellish is correct. > we live on in other people's minds and opinions whether we like it or not. I don't think Sartre really cared if we lived on in others minds at all. The issue is that the way in which our own minds were affected by 'the others' gaze. The hellish part to Sarte is the affect other have on our own psyche. > Also people don't have to be dysfunctional for it to be a form of torture According to Sarte's clarification it looks like that was his intention, however, I still agree with you, just the presence of the other can be hell. From Sartre: "I mean that if relations with someone else are twisted, vitiated, then that other person can only be hell."-Sartre
mistrial9 5y ago
yea agree, but further: We absorb our own interpretation of the critiques and judgements of others into our psyche because how can we know other than through our own thoughts and feelings many inquiries into an "eternal mirror" are possible from there..
- nickthemagicman 5y ago
  Ha yes. That's even crazier. There's another level of interpretation to the message. A person could interpret being called a nerdy programmer in a complimentary way, or they could interpret it in an insulting way. That makes one wonder what portion of our interpretations, thoughts, and feelings are internal and what portion are external. It is a nature vs nurture discussion at that point.

amouat 5y ago

So I largely agree, but it's not that "other people are hellish", it's that they are, in fact, hell. Satre is using the word hell to mean "the afterlife" i.e. we live on in other people's minds and opinions whether we like it or not. Also people don't have to be dysfunctional for it to be a form of torture, we are trapped in their minds (gaze?) no matter what.

weatherlight 5y ago
exactly!
nickthemagicman 5y ago
> "other people are hellish", it's that they are, in fact, hell. I think you may have been distracted by the semantics over the ideas. I'm talking about hellish people, not hellish relations. Hell is other people. People who are hellish. How I'm using hellish is correct. > we live on in other people's minds and opinions whether we like it or not. I don't think Sartre really cared if we lived on in others minds at all. The issue is that the way in which our own minds were affected by 'the others' gaze. The hellish part to Sarte is the affect other have on our own psyche. > Also people don't have to be dysfunctional for it to be a form of torture According to Sarte's clarification it looks like that was his intention, however, I still agree with you, just the presence of the other can be hell. From Sartre: "I mean that if relations with someone else are twisted, vitiated, then that other person can only be hell."-Sartre

mistrial9 5y ago

yea agree, but further: We absorb our own interpretation of the critiques and judgements of others into our psyche because how can we know other than through our own thoughts and feelings many inquiries into an "eternal mirror" are possible from there..

nickthemagicman 5y ago
Ha yes. That's even crazier. There's another level of interpretation to the message. A person could interpret being called a nerdy programmer in a complimentary way, or they could interpret it in an insulting way. That makes one wonder what portion of our interpretations, thoughts, and feelings are internal and what portion are external. It is a nature vs nurture discussion at that point.