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Closed IM protocols aren’t standards so this doesn’t really apply. There’s only three realistic “standards” in instant messaging: irc, xmpp and matrix. IRC is e

Closed IM protocols aren’t standards so this doesn’t really apply. There’s only three realistic “standards” in instant messaging: irc, xmpp and matrix. IRC is essentially dead, xmpp is on its last leg and mostly irrelevant, and matrix is very promising just not popular enough yet.

tapoxi 5y ago
XMPP is widely deployed and it's the backbone of WhatsApp, you don't see a lot of servers that openly federate XMPP because there's little business incentive to do so.
- scrollaway 5y ago
  Xmpp can continue being a server side protocol all you want, it doesn’t make it a user facing protocol. So in terms of federated or at least cross compatible IM clients it’s irrelevant.
zaik 5y ago
> xmpp is on its last leg Why? Unlike Matrix it's actually an Internet Standard.
- grandpoobah 5y ago
  It's had about 20 years to hit the bigtime, I think we can safely say it's not going to happen.
  - upofadown 5y ago
    So what is the bigtime open messaging standard?
    - kitkat_new 5y ago
      there isn't any. But if I would have to bet on a standard which could become it right now, then it would be Matrix. It convinces when it comes to adoption, concept, features and growth.
  - MattJ100 5y ago
    A mere protocol will never "hit the bigtime" without some compelling (non-protocol) reason. It's unfortunate that businesses choose to build silos time and time again, but that's where we are - it's not an issue that can be solved at the protocol level. Should this be fixed (e.g. through regulation), XMPP is absolutely a sound choice - given, as you say, its 20 years of experience, evolution and deployment track record.
    - kitkat_new 5y ago
      honestly, given the current adoption, growth and state of the ecosystem, I don't think it is. In theory, you could achieve with it what Matrix achieves, but it would probably be more feasible to start from scratch - like Matrix did That said, I see how it currently has advantages when it comes to resource consumption as well as internal deployment to centralized services.
- kitkat_new 5y ago
  > argument from authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
rohithkp 5y ago
Doesn't Apple implement XMPP for iMessage as well?

tapoxi 5y ago

XMPP is widely deployed and it's the backbone of WhatsApp, you don't see a lot of servers that openly federate XMPP because there's little business incentive to do so.

scrollaway 5y ago
Xmpp can continue being a server side protocol all you want, it doesn’t make it a user facing protocol. So in terms of federated or at least cross compatible IM clients it’s irrelevant.

zaik 5y ago

> xmpp is on its last leg Why? Unlike Matrix it's actually an Internet Standard.

grandpoobah 5y ago
It's had about 20 years to hit the bigtime, I think we can safely say it's not going to happen.
- upofadown 5y ago
  So what is the bigtime open messaging standard?
  - kitkat_new 5y ago
    there isn't any. But if I would have to bet on a standard which could become it right now, then it would be Matrix. It convinces when it comes to adoption, concept, features and growth.
- MattJ100 5y ago
  A mere protocol will never "hit the bigtime" without some compelling (non-protocol) reason. It's unfortunate that businesses choose to build silos time and time again, but that's where we are - it's not an issue that can be solved at the protocol level. Should this be fixed (e.g. through regulation), XMPP is absolutely a sound choice - given, as you say, its 20 years of experience, evolution and deployment track record.
  - kitkat_new 5y ago
    honestly, given the current adoption, growth and state of the ecosystem, I don't think it is. In theory, you could achieve with it what Matrix achieves, but it would probably be more feasible to start from scratch - like Matrix did That said, I see how it currently has advantages when it comes to resource consumption as well as internal deployment to centralized services.
kitkat_new 5y ago
> argument from authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

rohithkp 5y ago

Doesn't Apple implement XMPP for iMessage as well?