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Multi device or not it’s still impossible to have a shared / imported history between iOS and Android, it’s impossible to export chat history, etc. Sure some p

Multi device or not it’s still impossible to have a shared / imported history between iOS and Android, it’s impossible to export chat history, etc. Sure some people don’t find their chat history valuable. I do though and so do many others, it contains valuable information and memories. Is it the end of the world if it disappears? No, but it still sucks. One day we will have a popular open protocol and client for instant messaging. One day…

cybert00th 5y ago
That last sentiment would be very nice indeed, but I fear this is what we'll get instead: https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/
- daptaq 5y ago
  XKCD should make a comic about pre-emptively 927'ing any suggestion to improve something.
  - spicybright 5y ago
    It doesn't mean don't bother improving something, just don't expect everyone to switch to it.
    - upofadown 5y ago
      Having hardly anyone switch to a new standard when there are existing ones could actually be considered a good thing. The problem comes when the new standard is promoted, inevitably fails to become dominant and ends up making the problem worse. Note that sometimes new standards are promoted specifically to destroy an existing open standard. The trick is to push hard for the new standard until it gets sort of popular and then back off. Adjust as required to keep things balanced.
- scrollaway 5y ago
  Closed IM protocols aren’t standards so this doesn’t really apply. There’s only three realistic “standards” in instant messaging: irc, xmpp and matrix. IRC is essentially dead, xmpp is on its last leg and mostly irrelevant, and matrix is very promising just not popular enough yet.
  - tapoxi 5y ago
    XMPP is widely deployed and it's the backbone of WhatsApp, you don't see a lot of servers that openly federate XMPP because there's little business incentive to do so.
    - scrollaway 5y ago
      Xmpp can continue being a server side protocol all you want, it doesn’t make it a user facing protocol. So in terms of federated or at least cross compatible IM clients it’s irrelevant.
  - zaik 5y ago
    > xmpp is on its last leg Why? Unlike Matrix it's actually an Internet Standard.
    - grandpoobah 5y ago
      It's had about 20 years to hit the bigtime, I think we can safely say it's not going to happen.
      - upofadown 5y ago
        So what is the bigtime open messaging standard?
        kitkat_new 5y ago
        there isn't any. But if I would have to bet on a standard which could become it right now, then it would be Matrix. It convinces when it comes to adoption, concept, features and growth.
perryizgr8 5y ago
> it’s impossible to export chat history There has been a "Chat export" option for years. I even exported a chat of mine and ran it through some sentiment analysis for fun. > shared / imported history between iOS and Android Yeah this is perplexing. Android to android it works fine. The moment you throw Ios into the mix it gets complicated.
- scrollaway 5y ago
  My understanding is that WhatsApp uses a different database between android and iOS and I guess they never figured out a good UX for converting between them. It’s shockingly ridiculous for something owned by Facebook.
- Denvercoder9 5y ago
  > There has been a "Chat export" option for years. I even exported a chat of mine and ran it through some sentiment analysis for fun. You've to do it manually for every chat, and it lacks all media. From the context of preserving your chat history, it's just marginally better than having nothing.
- toyg 5y ago
  Just another day in the walled garden.
- avh02 5y ago
  > There has been a "Chat export" option for years. Except where they disable it, like in Germany (but haven't followed up on that story if it was resolved) edit: seems to no longer be the case, time to run some backups!
louisnow 5y ago
Aside: Moving from Android to iOS is possible using Watoi although it is highly convoluted. https://apple.stackexchange.com/a/307596/364945 https://apple.stackexchange.com/a/307596/364945
holistio 5y ago
We have (had?) IRC, it was basic but compared to the era it thrived in it was way better than what we have today, compared to what's possible today.
- red_trumpet 5y ago
  I don't know much about IRC, but isn't it about group chats, as opposed to instant messaging? Sure, it might be possible to have instant messages, but is that possible over server boundaries?
flas9sd 5y ago
I recently did this (Edit: import) via sqlite for somebody, the iOS->Android direction, but with knowledge about both databases schema you can go both ways. Whatsapp also has the I->A route in beta for some time too? There are some preconditions, it's not the easiest, but "no 3rd party" required so to speak
justshowpost 5y ago
> One day we will have a popular open protocol and client for instant messaging. One day… We have. It's called Matrix.

cybert00th 5y ago

That last sentiment would be very nice indeed, but I fear this is what we'll get instead: https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/

daptaq 5y ago
XKCD should make a comic about pre-emptively 927'ing any suggestion to improve something.
- spicybright 5y ago
  It doesn't mean don't bother improving something, just don't expect everyone to switch to it.
  - upofadown 5y ago
    Having hardly anyone switch to a new standard when there are existing ones could actually be considered a good thing. The problem comes when the new standard is promoted, inevitably fails to become dominant and ends up making the problem worse. Note that sometimes new standards are promoted specifically to destroy an existing open standard. The trick is to push hard for the new standard until it gets sort of popular and then back off. Adjust as required to keep things balanced.
scrollaway 5y ago
Closed IM protocols aren’t standards so this doesn’t really apply. There’s only three realistic “standards” in instant messaging: irc, xmpp and matrix. IRC is essentially dead, xmpp is on its last leg and mostly irrelevant, and matrix is very promising just not popular enough yet.
- tapoxi 5y ago
  XMPP is widely deployed and it's the backbone of WhatsApp, you don't see a lot of servers that openly federate XMPP because there's little business incentive to do so.
  - scrollaway 5y ago
    Xmpp can continue being a server side protocol all you want, it doesn’t make it a user facing protocol. So in terms of federated or at least cross compatible IM clients it’s irrelevant.
- zaik 5y ago
  > xmpp is on its last leg Why? Unlike Matrix it's actually an Internet Standard.
  - grandpoobah 5y ago
    It's had about 20 years to hit the bigtime, I think we can safely say it's not going to happen.
    - upofadown 5y ago
      So what is the bigtime open messaging standard?
      - kitkat_new 5y ago
        there isn't any. But if I would have to bet on a standard which could become it right now, then it would be Matrix. It convinces when it comes to adoption, concept, features and growth.

perryizgr8 5y ago

> it’s impossible to export chat history There has been a "Chat export" option for years. I even exported a chat of mine and ran it through some sentiment analysis for fun. > shared / imported history between iOS and Android Yeah this is perplexing. Android to android it works fine. The moment you throw Ios into the mix it gets complicated.

scrollaway 5y ago
My understanding is that WhatsApp uses a different database between android and iOS and I guess they never figured out a good UX for converting between them. It’s shockingly ridiculous for something owned by Facebook.
Denvercoder9 5y ago
> There has been a "Chat export" option for years. I even exported a chat of mine and ran it through some sentiment analysis for fun. You've to do it manually for every chat, and it lacks all media. From the context of preserving your chat history, it's just marginally better than having nothing.
toyg 5y ago
Just another day in the walled garden.
avh02 5y ago
> There has been a "Chat export" option for years. Except where they disable it, like in Germany (but haven't followed up on that story if it was resolved) edit: seems to no longer be the case, time to run some backups!

louisnow 5y ago

Aside: Moving from Android to iOS is possible using Watoi although it is highly convoluted. https://apple.stackexchange.com/a/307596/364945 https://apple.stackexchange.com/a/307596/364945

holistio 5y ago

We have (had?) IRC, it was basic but compared to the era it thrived in it was way better than what we have today, compared to what's possible today.

red_trumpet 5y ago
I don't know much about IRC, but isn't it about group chats, as opposed to instant messaging? Sure, it might be possible to have instant messages, but is that possible over server boundaries?

flas9sd 5y ago

I recently did this (Edit: import) via sqlite for somebody, the iOS->Android direction, but with knowledge about both databases schema you can go both ways. Whatsapp also has the I->A route in beta for some time too? There are some preconditions, it's not the easiest, but "no 3rd party" required so to speak

justshowpost 5y ago

> One day we will have a popular open protocol and client for instant messaging. One day… We have. It's called Matrix.