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I have wondered whether the 50c army will go global, and what would become of forums like this one if it happens.

by cturner 5y ago

bserge 5y ago
It's already happening. the 50c army vs the $0 army thinking they're doing anything useful with those arrows lol.
- onethought 5y ago
  I’ve been accused of being 50c army for expressing a more neutral tone on China and challenging pro-US anti-China rhetoric. It’s actually impossible to have a reasonable conversation about China, Chinese economy, Chinese government, or Xijinping because those seperate things are all conflated into a single one. Where as if you try to conflate, Biden (or trump) with US economy, america or the america people you will quickly get torn down as being ridiculous for the conflation. It’s very hard to overcome this blind spot on HN.
  - bserge 5y ago
    It's everywhere. And especially on the dumbest shit like Imgur or some subreddits. Just literally "Fuck China" trains. And clearly, they are the free, independent, smart, non-sheep people eh
  - marcus_holmes 5y ago
    Isn't that a cultural thing with China, though? That the party is the state, and therefore any criticism of the party is anti-patriotic criticism of the country? Thailand has similar rules; criticising the king is illegal because anti-patriotic. Cambodia has rules around criticising the government (conflating it with criticising the country). Myanmar is a bit of a special case at the moment. Not sure about Laos or Vietnam. The culture there just doesn't allow that kind of expression: you can't criticise your boss, or any authority, in public. That has become a flat "you can't criticise the CCP or its policies without being seen as attacking China" online.
    - 3np 5y ago
      It doesn't seem like you're consciously doing it but this comment falls to the exact same fallacy. That is, the party and their enforcers would be happy to agree. Yes, there's a very noisy mainority both online and abroad that will make you believe so. It's far from representative of the culture(s) and views of people in China, though.
      - marcus_holmes 5y ago
        I spent a couple of years in SE Asia, and worked in Cambodia, and my comment is based on that experience. I had a fascinating conversation with one of my staff where she explained that to criticise one's boss was absolutely taboo. Roughly equivalent to taking a dump on your boss's desk in Western culture. There's this whole concept of "social harmony" that we don't have in the West. And partly it revolves around respecting your place in a very strict social hierarchy. Criticising those above you in the hierarchy is "disharmonious" and not accepted. I'm fascinated if you know this is different in China? I haven't been to China (yet). But my impression from the contact with the Chinese I have had is that (at least in this respect) the cultures are very similar.
        onethought 5y ago
        I think there are crossovers. There are party elites. There are also a huge number of private enterprise that are not politically involved at all. They are there to make money, or impact. You are right about the social harmony aspect, but the younger generations interpret that as “don’t interfere with gov” … they won’t publically criticise or do any kind of political activism. But that still leaves a whole lot of things they do do.
        marcus_holmes 5y ago
        yeah, same in Cambodia. Most people I talked to didn't really seem to care about the politics, and are much more interested in making money. As long as the government let them do that relatively unrestricted, then they observed social harmony and kept out of politics.
  - jhgb 5y ago
    > China, Chinese economy, Chinese government, or Xijinping because those seperate things are all conflated into a single one Ehm...you are aware that you're talking about a one-party state? I used to live in one; it was all the same thing (except for the Xi Jinping part, of course).
    - onethought 5y ago
      No it isn’t. The tech scene in China is awesome. The startup scene is awesome. The communities I have interacted with are all awesome. Yes political speech isn’t really a thing. Yes xi is a problem. But to miss the awesome because of that is a mistake in my opinion. Small enterprises are largely uneffected by government. Sure Tencent and Alinaba have to jump through government hoops… but there is A LOT of business underneath that. Doing awesome stuff.
      - jhgb 5y ago
        > The tech scene in China is awesome. The startup scene is awesome. The communities I have interacted with are all awesome. I could say the same things about my country of birth at the time when the things I said were all true. I never said that no communities can thrive under oppressive conditions.
Apfel 5y ago
They're already all over Quora and Reddit.
- raverbashing 5y ago
  No GFW if you're working in propaganda apparently. This way they could claim on twitter how it was "business as usual" for the Chinese embassy on Kabul during the Taliban invasion. Information clearly not directed to its alleged audience. Though yes, it should be on Twitter and FB to detect and control those bot accounts.

I have wondered whether the 50c army will go global, and what would become of forums like this one if it happens.

bserge 5y ago

It's already happening. the 50c army vs the $0 army thinking they're doing anything useful with those arrows lol.

onethought 5y ago
I’ve been accused of being 50c army for expressing a more neutral tone on China and challenging pro-US anti-China rhetoric. It’s actually impossible to have a reasonable conversation about China, Chinese economy, Chinese government, or Xijinping because those seperate things are all conflated into a single one. Where as if you try to conflate, Biden (or trump) with US economy, america or the america people you will quickly get torn down as being ridiculous for the conflation. It’s very hard to overcome this blind spot on HN.
- bserge 5y ago
  It's everywhere. And especially on the dumbest shit like Imgur or some subreddits. Just literally "Fuck China" trains. And clearly, they are the free, independent, smart, non-sheep people eh
- marcus_holmes 5y ago
  Isn't that a cultural thing with China, though? That the party is the state, and therefore any criticism of the party is anti-patriotic criticism of the country? Thailand has similar rules; criticising the king is illegal because anti-patriotic. Cambodia has rules around criticising the government (conflating it with criticising the country). Myanmar is a bit of a special case at the moment. Not sure about Laos or Vietnam. The culture there just doesn't allow that kind of expression: you can't criticise your boss, or any authority, in public. That has become a flat "you can't criticise the CCP or its policies without being seen as attacking China" online.
  - 3np 5y ago
    It doesn't seem like you're consciously doing it but this comment falls to the exact same fallacy. That is, the party and their enforcers would be happy to agree. Yes, there's a very noisy mainority both online and abroad that will make you believe so. It's far from representative of the culture(s) and views of people in China, though.
    - marcus_holmes 5y ago
      I spent a couple of years in SE Asia, and worked in Cambodia, and my comment is based on that experience. I had a fascinating conversation with one of my staff where she explained that to criticise one's boss was absolutely taboo. Roughly equivalent to taking a dump on your boss's desk in Western culture. There's this whole concept of "social harmony" that we don't have in the West. And partly it revolves around respecting your place in a very strict social hierarchy. Criticising those above you in the hierarchy is "disharmonious" and not accepted. I'm fascinated if you know this is different in China? I haven't been to China (yet). But my impression from the contact with the Chinese I have had is that (at least in this respect) the cultures are very similar.
      - onethought 5y ago
        I think there are crossovers. There are party elites. There are also a huge number of private enterprise that are not politically involved at all. They are there to make money, or impact. You are right about the social harmony aspect, but the younger generations interpret that as “don’t interfere with gov” … they won’t publically criticise or do any kind of political activism. But that still leaves a whole lot of things they do do.
        marcus_holmes 5y ago
        yeah, same in Cambodia. Most people I talked to didn't really seem to care about the politics, and are much more interested in making money. As long as the government let them do that relatively unrestricted, then they observed social harmony and kept out of politics.
- jhgb 5y ago
  > China, Chinese economy, Chinese government, or Xijinping because those seperate things are all conflated into a single one Ehm...you are aware that you're talking about a one-party state? I used to live in one; it was all the same thing (except for the Xi Jinping part, of course).
  - onethought 5y ago
    No it isn’t. The tech scene in China is awesome. The startup scene is awesome. The communities I have interacted with are all awesome. Yes political speech isn’t really a thing. Yes xi is a problem. But to miss the awesome because of that is a mistake in my opinion. Small enterprises are largely uneffected by government. Sure Tencent and Alinaba have to jump through government hoops… but there is A LOT of business underneath that. Doing awesome stuff.
    - jhgb 5y ago
      > The tech scene in China is awesome. The startup scene is awesome. The communities I have interacted with are all awesome. I could say the same things about my country of birth at the time when the things I said were all true. I never said that no communities can thrive under oppressive conditions.

Apfel 5y ago

They're already all over Quora and Reddit.

raverbashing 5y ago
No GFW if you're working in propaganda apparently. This way they could claim on twitter how it was "business as usual" for the Chinese embassy on Kabul during the Taliban invasion. Information clearly not directed to its alleged audience. Though yes, it should be on Twitter and FB to detect and control those bot accounts.