4 ms·

Windows 11 just re-introduced rounded rectangles for window borders, and I kind of like it. Also seems we're leaving flat surfaces behind for something more ske

Windows 11 just re-introduced rounded rectangles for window borders, and I kind of like it. Also seems we're leaving flat surfaces behind for something more skeuomorphic again.

ehnto 5y ago
I started writing a comment akin to "fads recycle" but then I got to thinking, the past decade or more has seen UI fads come and go blazingly fast because of how quickly the web moved, which is probably why I think this is just another loop around the cycle. But in OS land, specifically in Windows land, this is actually a pretty big step in a product with few refactor opportunities. Win doesn't have the luxury of changing the UI every 6 months like websites/apps do, and so they're placing a pretty big bet on this UI being a reasonably long lived product. I wonder how much that influences their willingness to chase trends.
- hnlmorg 5y ago
  Microsoft change UIs more frequently than any other OS. Take the last ~20 years of NT: - 2000 (looked a bit like 9x but with a little bit of polish) - XP (massive bold colours and chunky themes) - Vista (transparency and rounded edges galore) - 7 (a lot like Vista but refined a little so feels less like a toy) - 8 (another massive redesign. Now everything looks like Windows 1.0 in HD) - 10 (a lot like 8 but refined so feels less like a toy) In that 20 years we've seen 4 completely unique UIs with another 2 relatively significant updates too. That's an average of a complete redesign every 5 years! Compare that to the Mac where OSX/macOS has had a few relatively significant updates but nothing as grand as any of the 4 overhauls that Windows has had. Likewise with KDE. In 20 years we've had the release of KDE 3, 4 and 5. 4 and 5 are visually very similar. KDE 3 differs quite a bit from 4 but still nothing as contrasting as Windows 7 to 8. Same is true for GNOME and other Linux desktop environments too.
  - hobs 5y ago
    I would just note that a completely unique UI/complete redesign is saying a lot when I still have to use control panel items that have been around since I used Windows XP.
    - hnlmorg 5y ago
      A lot of the control panel items date further back than that :)
  - mattowen_uk 5y ago
    The difference here is that if you like Apple hardware, Apple do not have to up-sell you the OS - it's baked in and for most people the only option. So Apple do not have to make radical changes to draw you in. Whereas, Windows sits on fairly open hardware. PC users have another option of OS in Linux (and maybe BSD...) So Microsoft are aware that they need you still be invested in their OS every few years. It's like selling a car. Every few years the car manufacturer refreshes the body shape of the car to keep people loyal to that model and encourage them to refresh their older version even though fundamentally the newer model is no different.
    - hnlmorg 5y ago
      I believe that's what Microsoft believes but I don't believe it's actually true. The majority of Windows users are non-technical people who groan whenever anything on their computer changes. Sure, there will be a subset of people who get excited by jumping to the next shiny new thing but I don't believe that is enough to justify the frequency and significance of the changes that Microsoft implement. The proof is already out there, if you look at XP, that had official support for 8 years. Microsoft extended support a few times because of demand and lots of people still complained when Microsoft did eventually retire it. If it were the case that Microsoft needs to create a UI redesign every 5 years then XP wouldn't have been as long lived as it was. Then look at Windows 10, Microsoft had to literally give it away to get the average person to upgrade (and that's despite Win10 getting good reviews vs Win8 being hugely unpopular). Adoption was so underwhelming that Microsoft even made a statement that they weren't going to do any more major releases and follow Apple's release model with macOS. I think their OS department just got a little bored and decided to create Windows 11 regardless.
      - mattowen_uk 5y ago
        > I think their OS department just got a little bored and decided to create Windows 11 regardless. 100% agree with this statement. The Windows II UI is a pointless update[1]. They could have rolled all the backend improvements into a Windows 10 feature pack, but apparently didn't want to do that. Not to even mention that they hadn't even finished building Windows 10! --- [1] Like a spoiler on a hatchback car.

Windows 11 just re-introduced rounded rectangles for window borders, and I kind of like it. Also seems we're leaving flat surfaces behind for something more skeuomorphic again.

ehnto 5y ago

I started writing a comment akin to "fads recycle" but then I got to thinking, the past decade or more has seen UI fads come and go blazingly fast because of how quickly the web moved, which is probably why I think this is just another loop around the cycle. But in OS land, specifically in Windows land, this is actually a pretty big step in a product with few refactor opportunities. Win doesn't have the luxury of changing the UI every 6 months like websites/apps do, and so they're placing a pretty big bet on this UI being a reasonably long lived product. I wonder how much that influences their willingness to chase trends.

hnlmorg 5y ago
Microsoft change UIs more frequently than any other OS. Take the last ~20 years of NT: - 2000 (looked a bit like 9x but with a little bit of polish) - XP (massive bold colours and chunky themes) - Vista (transparency and rounded edges galore) - 7 (a lot like Vista but refined a little so feels less like a toy) - 8 (another massive redesign. Now everything looks like Windows 1.0 in HD) - 10 (a lot like 8 but refined so feels less like a toy) In that 20 years we've seen 4 completely unique UIs with another 2 relatively significant updates too. That's an average of a complete redesign every 5 years! Compare that to the Mac where OSX/macOS has had a few relatively significant updates but nothing as grand as any of the 4 overhauls that Windows has had. Likewise with KDE. In 20 years we've had the release of KDE 3, 4 and 5. 4 and 5 are visually very similar. KDE 3 differs quite a bit from 4 but still nothing as contrasting as Windows 7 to 8. Same is true for GNOME and other Linux desktop environments too.
- hobs 5y ago
  I would just note that a completely unique UI/complete redesign is saying a lot when I still have to use control panel items that have been around since I used Windows XP.
  - hnlmorg 5y ago
    A lot of the control panel items date further back than that :)
- mattowen_uk 5y ago
  The difference here is that if you like Apple hardware, Apple do not have to up-sell you the OS - it's baked in and for most people the only option. So Apple do not have to make radical changes to draw you in. Whereas, Windows sits on fairly open hardware. PC users have another option of OS in Linux (and maybe BSD...) So Microsoft are aware that they need you still be invested in their OS every few years. It's like selling a car. Every few years the car manufacturer refreshes the body shape of the car to keep people loyal to that model and encourage them to refresh their older version even though fundamentally the newer model is no different.
  - hnlmorg 5y ago
    I believe that's what Microsoft believes but I don't believe it's actually true. The majority of Windows users are non-technical people who groan whenever anything on their computer changes. Sure, there will be a subset of people who get excited by jumping to the next shiny new thing but I don't believe that is enough to justify the frequency and significance of the changes that Microsoft implement. The proof is already out there, if you look at XP, that had official support for 8 years. Microsoft extended support a few times because of demand and lots of people still complained when Microsoft did eventually retire it. If it were the case that Microsoft needs to create a UI redesign every 5 years then XP wouldn't have been as long lived as it was. Then look at Windows 10, Microsoft had to literally give it away to get the average person to upgrade (and that's despite Win10 getting good reviews vs Win8 being hugely unpopular). Adoption was so underwhelming that Microsoft even made a statement that they weren't going to do any more major releases and follow Apple's release model with macOS. I think their OS department just got a little bored and decided to create Windows 11 regardless.
    - mattowen_uk 5y ago
      > I think their OS department just got a little bored and decided to create Windows 11 regardless. 100% agree with this statement. The Windows II UI is a pointless update[1]. They could have rolled all the backend improvements into a Windows 10 feature pack, but apparently didn't want to do that. Not to even mention that they hadn't even finished building Windows 10! --- [1] Like a spoiler on a hatchback car.