3 ms·

Nearly everybody who finished a PhD in the top-tier humanities graduate program I attended got an academic position. Those who didn't didn't deserve it, hadn't

Nearly everybody who finished a PhD in the top-tier humanities graduate program I attended got an academic position. Those who didn't didn't deserve it, hadn't done the work, weren't capable of it, or were so personally disagreeable that no department in their right mind would hire them. The sciences are different, and the prospects for and conditions of academic employment seem worse. In the humanities, though, in the very best programs, the system still seems to work. This may no longer be true though. I finished about ten years ago. Additionally, I know a fair number of people who finished their PhDs in the humanities and the sciences, or didn't finish, and don't regret at all the time they 'lost.'

slyall 5y ago
You say "top-tier" and "very best programs" attendees get the jobs. But plenty of students study at other schools under the impression they also have the same sort of chance. I've heard about places that have programs but all the facility are hired from top-tier schools.
- globnomulous 5y ago
  Right, that's true. I just figured I'd offer a perspective that I haven't seen yet in the thread. Crappy programs are, in my view, a sham, but in my field they're still a pathway to stable work. There are plenty of schools that won't hire PhDs from top schools because they know they won't stay. Second- and third-tier PhDs fill those positions. The pay is abysmal, but most of the people choose to stick it out make their peace -- and live very cheap places. But maybe I should be using the past tense. There has been no job market at any tier since the pandemic started, and I'm told universities are seizing the opportunity to make that permanent.
- dsq 5y ago
  Found this: https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/02/university-hiring-if-you-didn-t-get-your-ph-d-at-an-elite-university-good-luck-finding-an-academic-job https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/02/university-hiring-i... Basically it states that most tenured positions are filled by PhDs from the top programs. Lower tier schools have far fewer future professors.
  - hatmatrix 5y ago
    Is this the right link? https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/02/university-hiring-if-you-didn-t-get-your-ph-d-at-an-elite-university-good-luck-finding-an-academic-job.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/02/university-hiring-i... Anyway, is that still true? Nowadays you have to do one or more postdocs, and lower tier schools can feed newly-minted PhDs into postdocs at a top tier school, who then go onto faculty positions. There are a significant number students who don't do as well in high school, university coursework, but excel in research and are able to differentiate themselves when they make it into a research program.
    - dsq 5y ago
      I've got to remember to "copy link address" and not "copy link text"...thanks! Yes, my subjective impression is that a successful post doc at a top name university will do a lot.

slyall 5y ago

You say "top-tier" and "very best programs" attendees get the jobs. But plenty of students study at other schools under the impression they also have the same sort of chance. I've heard about places that have programs but all the facility are hired from top-tier schools.

globnomulous 5y ago
Right, that's true. I just figured I'd offer a perspective that I haven't seen yet in the thread. Crappy programs are, in my view, a sham, but in my field they're still a pathway to stable work. There are plenty of schools that won't hire PhDs from top schools because they know they won't stay. Second- and third-tier PhDs fill those positions. The pay is abysmal, but most of the people choose to stick it out make their peace -- and live very cheap places. But maybe I should be using the past tense. There has been no job market at any tier since the pandemic started, and I'm told universities are seizing the opportunity to make that permanent.
dsq 5y ago
Found this: https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/02/university-hiring-if-you-didn-t-get-your-ph-d-at-an-elite-university-good-luck-finding-an-academic-job https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/02/university-hiring-i... Basically it states that most tenured positions are filled by PhDs from the top programs. Lower tier schools have far fewer future professors.
- hatmatrix 5y ago
  Is this the right link? https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/02/university-hiring-if-you-didn-t-get-your-ph-d-at-an-elite-university-good-luck-finding-an-academic-job.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/02/university-hiring-i... Anyway, is that still true? Nowadays you have to do one or more postdocs, and lower tier schools can feed newly-minted PhDs into postdocs at a top tier school, who then go onto faculty positions. There are a significant number students who don't do as well in high school, university coursework, but excel in research and are able to differentiate themselves when they make it into a research program.
  - dsq 5y ago
    I've got to remember to "copy link address" and not "copy link text"...thanks! Yes, my subjective impression is that a successful post doc at a top name university will do a lot.