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While it may be true that many PhDs are not a financially good decision, I think the answer is not necessarily so clear cut for a computer science PhD. I didn’
by bertr4nd 5y ago
While it may be true that many PhDs are not a financially good decision, I think the answer is not necessarily so clear cut for a computer science PhD.
I didn’t have any sort of foot in the door at FAANG level companies before my PhD (ask me about my 3x rejections from Microsoft!), but I was able to parlay my CS PhD into such a job, and the earning potential there is profoundly higher than would be found elsewhere. Enough, even, to offset 6 years of lost earning potential.
Obviously this is just my experience, and those talented undergrads who can ace a Google interview are likely better off just taking it, but it’s not like the PhD was a vow of poverty.
- wanderingmind 5y agoCS PhD is the outlier and not the norm. Most fields even in STEM its impossible to get a high paying job in the field of your thesis.
- jleyank 5y agoIn chemistry at least, the PhD is the entry card for non-technician work. Post-docs are seemingly required for the academic path, and are of some use for pharma, but the union card is a must.
- barry-cotter 5y agoThis seems more like a reason to avoid Chemistry than to get a PhD.
- beanjuice 5y agoYou don't always get to choose what you're interested in, as much as it might seem on HN.
- alexgmcm 5y agoDoes the salary compensate the amount of effort to get there though? I had a friend who was a chemist but she left the field to pursue data science instead after her pharmaceutical company started even more layoffs in R+D - it seems pharma companies are more interested in intellectual property law than drug development these days.
- BeetleB 5y agoNot true. I worked in an engineering company that has a lot of jobs that require a PhD. Pay well, too. Lots of engineering companies have positions where they value PhDs. Will it offset the cost of not earning all those years? Probably not. Will you get those jobs without a PhD? Probably not.
- Ekaros 5y agoOn other hand, are the jobs that are not those jobs much worse? For pay and career development at least? Counting the 3-4 years you have extra experience in industry.
- PeterisP 5y agoIMHO they're not worse, they're different. The PhD-enabled jobs there aren't worth it purely in pay, they're worth it iff you really want to do a different type of work.
- bumby 5y agoFrom what I can tell in engineering fields in industry, the biggest differentiator is the PhD tends to give you more autonomy.
- labcomputer 5y agoSo get a job in a field outside your thesis. FAANGy companies are happy to hire PhD from "other quantitative fields".
- eecc 5y agoOh boy, I was having a quick brunch at a software industry conference before Corona and I happened to sit next to this dude: he was getting into software testing after having worked his ass off a PhD and a post-doc in physics. Not to berate software testing but… wow, I lost my appetite thinking how bad his hand had been.
- dagw 5y agoI work in civil engineering (in Europe), and all companies I've worked at have been full of PhDs doing work related to the thing they did their PhD in.
- bumby 5y agoIn my experience, civil engineering may not have cross-topic applicability like some other engineering disciplines. For example, someone with a PhD in concrete may not be able to jump to hydrology. But am industrial engineer who did a PhD in healthcare optimization could more easily parlay that into other optimization work. A aerospace PhD could work on windmill design, etc.
- barry-cotter 5y agoThere are bootcamp grads with jobs at Google. There are self taught people. A PhD is a very expensive way of getting into a FAANG if there are people who manage it without a university degree of any kind.
- inter_netuser 5y agoThere is a difference between front-end HTML/CSS typesetting and bleeding edge cryptography work.
- barry-cotter 5y agoYes, and there are self-taught people working at Google who do bleeding edge cryptography work. Many, many fewer than those with PhDs but I know tptacek and daeken are excellent and have no formal qualifications. If your goal is to get a job at Google a PhD is a poor way to get it.
- shusaku 5y ago> Yes, and there are self-taught people working at Google who do bleeding edge cryptography work And we’ve come full circle to the topic of survivorship bias
- inter_netuser 5y agoWe might have different definitions of "bleeding edge". I meant cryptography research, with implication that work is publishable. Google Research employs 2000+ people. I believe not only they all have PhDs, but also from top-tier schools. a PhD is really an absolute minimum requirement for those jobs, and with extremely fierce competition for those jobs, I would be seriously surprised there is anyone there without a PhD who is doing actual cryptography research. Not aware of any exceptions to this general rule. "a job" could also be a janitor. yes, don't need a phd for that. for some jobs it's a bare minimum qualification. (not to say people should necessarily strive for those, but such is life)