5 ms·

Could you really just not have managers in an org that reached a certain size? Past a certain point hierarchies and power structures are going to form, and an e

by alecbz 5y ago

Could you really just not have managers in an org that reached a certain size? Past a certain point hierarchies and power structures are going to form, and an explicit management structure is way to make them clear and explicit. I think in a lot of ways managers are just the glue that holds orgs together. Nobody at all might really want the glue a whole lot, but I'm not sure what not having glue would look like.

kodah 5y ago
I think managers can be useful, but I am starting to think that maybe the issue is that managers don't have to share power with someone who has technical chops.
- alecbz 5y ago
  Line managers should definitely have technical chops.
- chitowneats 5y ago
  I've rarely had managers that did not have technical chops. Did they know the ins and outs of fashion in the latest JavaScript frameworks? Not always. Were they sometimes rusty remembering the method signature of standard library functions? Yeah. But they typically had deep knowledge and experience with architecting systems, maintaining those systems, making important strategic tradeoffs, planning and estimation, reviewing code, and interfacing with the business. Having a manager with these skills is invaluable for a productive team.
  - skeeter2020 5y ago
    Most technical managers (like myself) come from a development background. I personally have a very strong fear of not having the technical chops to demand specific behaviours & actions; of being illegitimate. My group's staff developer was very close to taking the job that I now have, but decided he wanted to be a technical leader. I do all the stuff that gives him the time to do that.
    - chitowneats 5y ago
      Sounds like your team is lucky to have you. I know not all teams are in a good spot in this regard. As you mentioned, not all engineers want to end up in your role. Good managers create the conditions necessary for architect/staff engineer roles, and engineer career growth in general, in addition to achieving business goals.
rukuu001 5y ago
Yes, see here: https://hbr.org/2011/12/first-lets-fire-all-the-managers https://hbr.org/2011/12/first-lets-fire-all-the-managers The experience at Morning Star (the company referred to in that link) is oft-quoted, but rarely replicated.
- rramadass 5y ago
  Neat! Never knew of this company. Thanks for posting this.
waspight 5y ago
I’ve read numerous of times that a flat organization will work in the early years of a company. But in the end it has to evolve into something more hierarchical.

by alecbz 5y ago

kodah 5y ago

I think managers can be useful, but I am starting to think that maybe the issue is that managers don't have to share power with someone who has technical chops.

alecbz 5y ago
Line managers should definitely have technical chops.
chitowneats 5y ago
I've rarely had managers that did not have technical chops. Did they know the ins and outs of fashion in the latest JavaScript frameworks? Not always. Were they sometimes rusty remembering the method signature of standard library functions? Yeah. But they typically had deep knowledge and experience with architecting systems, maintaining those systems, making important strategic tradeoffs, planning and estimation, reviewing code, and interfacing with the business. Having a manager with these skills is invaluable for a productive team.
- skeeter2020 5y ago
  Most technical managers (like myself) come from a development background. I personally have a very strong fear of not having the technical chops to demand specific behaviours & actions; of being illegitimate. My group's staff developer was very close to taking the job that I now have, but decided he wanted to be a technical leader. I do all the stuff that gives him the time to do that.
  - chitowneats 5y ago
    Sounds like your team is lucky to have you. I know not all teams are in a good spot in this regard. As you mentioned, not all engineers want to end up in your role. Good managers create the conditions necessary for architect/staff engineer roles, and engineer career growth in general, in addition to achieving business goals.

rukuu001 5y ago

Yes, see here: https://hbr.org/2011/12/first-lets-fire-all-the-managers https://hbr.org/2011/12/first-lets-fire-all-the-managers The experience at Morning Star (the company referred to in that link) is oft-quoted, but rarely replicated.

rramadass 5y ago
Neat! Never knew of this company. Thanks for posting this.

waspight 5y ago

I’ve read numerous of times that a flat organization will work in the early years of a company. But in the end it has to evolve into something more hierarchical.