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If the reason is to reduce competitive demand for cheap fuel by preventing poorer countries to have access to the most cost effective coal technology, so that C

If the reason is to reduce competitive demand for cheap fuel by preventing poorer countries to have access to the most cost effective coal technology, so that China can have cheaper energy [which is just my conjecture], I don't think it is a great outcome at all. China has a horrible environmental track record, they cause more carbon pollution than the developing world combined, and despite being a rich country they are still massively increasing their carbon outputs. The fact they are a communist dictatorship doesn't inspire any confidence that they might one day suddenly start to value the environment any more than they do now. They will move away from coal as soon as it become economically advantageous to do so and no sooner, which is not all that different to how poorer countries will deal with their coal generation.

neltnerb 5y ago
> They will move away from coal as soon as it become economically advantageous to do so and no sooner, which is not all that different to how poorer countries will deal with their coal generation. The incentives are aligned, the solar panels are made in China, by Chinese companies, and as it turns out another domestic industry (construction) is collapsing so they need a new, major domestic economic boost. I predict it will be renewable power, it's both in their interest and boosts their international profile. I don't agree that China has that bad a track record, they seem to be very willing to take dramatic actions if they feel it is in their self interest (recently, bitcoin for instance). I think it is in their self-interest to phase out coal for domestically manufactured solar since it will juice their economy, give their entire economy a generational advantage over legacy systems, and help protect their domestic food production.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  Same as the incentives for other countries to move to solar when it becomes cheaper. We're talking about buying coal power station technology (and likely construction and quite possibly operation) from China, or buying solar generation from them. > I don't agree that China has that bad a track record, they seem to be very willing to take dramatic actions if they feel it is in their self interest (recently, bitcoin for instance). Oh they definitely have a horrible track record on carbon pollution (as well as a lot of other things like ocean plastic pollution, over fishing, endangered animal trade, illegal CFC emissions, and all sorts of horrible things. They are by far the biggest carbon polluter on the planet, larger than the entire western world combined, and yet they still plan to vastly increase carbon pollution and demand concessions in international carbon agreements. They're horrible.
  - neltnerb 5y ago
    Surely better than debt financed coal plants in other countries... right? At least China definitely has the domestic manufacturing base required to replace with solar or nuclear. And I do think the incentive is stronger for them from an economic standpoint. Consider the extreme case where they build enough coal plants to entirely power their electrical grid at the capacity they want. Now they get a chance to install new solar facilities, manufacture those solar panels, deconstruct the coal plants, and on top of it get kudos internationally for shutting down coal? I think it's a lot more incentive than just the cost of installation, it's totally different since they make the panels too. Same way that coal mining companies want there to be more coal plants in the US... China is the country with all the sun mining companies, and seems intent on keeping it that way.
    - throwawaylinux 5y ago
      No, I'm saying it's not better that a relatively wealthy country like China continues to increase its usage in the cheapest and dirtiest fuel rather than much poorer countries.

neltnerb 5y ago

> They will move away from coal as soon as it become economically advantageous to do so and no sooner, which is not all that different to how poorer countries will deal with their coal generation. The incentives are aligned, the solar panels are made in China, by Chinese companies, and as it turns out another domestic industry (construction) is collapsing so they need a new, major domestic economic boost. I predict it will be renewable power, it's both in their interest and boosts their international profile. I don't agree that China has that bad a track record, they seem to be very willing to take dramatic actions if they feel it is in their self interest (recently, bitcoin for instance). I think it is in their self-interest to phase out coal for domestically manufactured solar since it will juice their economy, give their entire economy a generational advantage over legacy systems, and help protect their domestic food production.

throwawaylinux 5y ago
Same as the incentives for other countries to move to solar when it becomes cheaper. We're talking about buying coal power station technology (and likely construction and quite possibly operation) from China, or buying solar generation from them. > I don't agree that China has that bad a track record, they seem to be very willing to take dramatic actions if they feel it is in their self interest (recently, bitcoin for instance). Oh they definitely have a horrible track record on carbon pollution (as well as a lot of other things like ocean plastic pollution, over fishing, endangered animal trade, illegal CFC emissions, and all sorts of horrible things. They are by far the biggest carbon polluter on the planet, larger than the entire western world combined, and yet they still plan to vastly increase carbon pollution and demand concessions in international carbon agreements. They're horrible.
- neltnerb 5y ago
  Surely better than debt financed coal plants in other countries... right? At least China definitely has the domestic manufacturing base required to replace with solar or nuclear. And I do think the incentive is stronger for them from an economic standpoint. Consider the extreme case where they build enough coal plants to entirely power their electrical grid at the capacity they want. Now they get a chance to install new solar facilities, manufacture those solar panels, deconstruct the coal plants, and on top of it get kudos internationally for shutting down coal? I think it's a lot more incentive than just the cost of installation, it's totally different since they make the panels too. Same way that coal mining companies want there to be more coal plants in the US... China is the country with all the sun mining companies, and seems intent on keeping it that way.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    No, I'm saying it's not better that a relatively wealthy country like China continues to increase its usage in the cheapest and dirtiest fuel rather than much poorer countries.