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Can't believe a comment that openly discriminated China-born US citizens is now a top comment. The whole logic behind the argument (around China-born US citizen

by nnm 5y ago

Can't believe a comment that openly discriminated China-born US citizens is now a top comment. The whole logic behind the argument (around China-born US citizens) is so weak.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
post_from_work 5y ago
Previous cases of naturalized Chinese-Americans being indicted for espionage/IP theft/national security-related crimes: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/mit-professor-arrested-and-charged-grant-fraud https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/mit-professor-arrested-an... https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-navy-officer-his-wife-and-two-chinese-nationals-charged-conspiring-smuggle-military-style https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-navy-officer-his-wife-and-... https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-cia-case-officer-charged-conspiracy-commit-espionage-and-retention-national-defense https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-cia-case-officer-charg... https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3104566/china-born-us-citizen-charged-over-alleged-theft-american https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3104566/ch... https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-citizen-charged-with-spying-for-china-after-sting-operation/2019/09/30/bee1228a-e3c5-11e9-b403-f738899982d2_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-citizen-...
- yibg 5y ago
  Isn't citing some example cases pretty poor argument in this case? There are lots of examples of muslim terrorists, so we should just ban all muslims? There are examples of Mexican criminals, so we should just ban all Mexicans? Edit: Not to mention the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII.
  - science4sail 5y ago
    The internment of Japanese Americans is actually a pretty good example. As far as the outcome of events is concerned, it doesn't matter whether any of them actually were traitors (as far as I know there were no significant cases), it only matters whether they were depicted as traitors by politicians eager to stoke public xenophobia.
  - post_from_work 5y ago
    GP stated "the logic behind the argument is weak". I cited cases to demonstrate the legitimate security concerns related to naturalized citizens. I had a Lance Corporal who worked for me who's father was a member of the Aryan Brotherhood. He had to get a waiver for his security clearance because he had a direct connection to a known criminal and racist organization. "Do you, or any of your family, have connections to the CCP?" should probably be a question added to the next version of the SF86 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Form_86 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Form_86 ), and should trigger additional scrutiny. I'm not sure what is measures are in place now but they are clearly insufficient.
    - yibg 5y ago
      It is pretty weak though. It’s the same argument trump made in his Muslim ban and wanting to build a wall along the Mexican border. He had cases he can point to as well.
      - post_from_work 5y ago
        Ok. What is YOUR threshold for major national security breaches of consistent origin past which we should implement focused control measures to mitigate the risk? And what would your control measures be?
        yibg 5y ago
        I don’t have a definite answer, but it’s not by country of birth. We’ve had too many ugliness in history stemming from that type of grouping. Because if it’s guilty by association (and not even association of one’s choice), then how is this different from the Japanese internment of WW 2? Edit: also, is there any evidence that banning people of a certain birth place is actually effective? We already do background checks, and if those don’t screen out the risks, why would an additional blanket ban help?

by nnm 5y ago

Can't believe a comment that openly discriminated China-born US citizens is now a top comment. The whole logic behind the argument (around China-born US citizens) is so weak.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

post_from_work 5y ago

Previous cases of naturalized Chinese-Americans being indicted for espionage/IP theft/national security-related crimes: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/mit-professor-arrested-and-charged-grant-fraud https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/pr/mit-professor-arrested-an... https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-navy-officer-his-wife-and-two-chinese-nationals-charged-conspiring-smuggle-military-style https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-navy-officer-his-wife-and-... https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-cia-case-officer-charged-conspiracy-commit-espionage-and-retention-national-defense https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/former-cia-case-officer-charg... https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3104566/china-born-us-citizen-charged-over-alleged-theft-american https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3104566/ch... https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-citizen-charged-with-spying-for-china-after-sting-operation/2019/09/30/bee1228a-e3c5-11e9-b403-f738899982d2_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-citizen-...

yibg 5y ago
Isn't citing some example cases pretty poor argument in this case? There are lots of examples of muslim terrorists, so we should just ban all muslims? There are examples of Mexican criminals, so we should just ban all Mexicans? Edit: Not to mention the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII.
- science4sail 5y ago
  The internment of Japanese Americans is actually a pretty good example. As far as the outcome of events is concerned, it doesn't matter whether any of them actually were traitors (as far as I know there were no significant cases), it only matters whether they were depicted as traitors by politicians eager to stoke public xenophobia.
- post_from_work 5y ago
  GP stated "the logic behind the argument is weak". I cited cases to demonstrate the legitimate security concerns related to naturalized citizens. I had a Lance Corporal who worked for me who's father was a member of the Aryan Brotherhood. He had to get a waiver for his security clearance because he had a direct connection to a known criminal and racist organization. "Do you, or any of your family, have connections to the CCP?" should probably be a question added to the next version of the SF86 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Form_86 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Form_86 ), and should trigger additional scrutiny. I'm not sure what is measures are in place now but they are clearly insufficient.
  - yibg 5y ago
    It is pretty weak though. It’s the same argument trump made in his Muslim ban and wanting to build a wall along the Mexican border. He had cases he can point to as well.
    - post_from_work 5y ago
      Ok. What is YOUR threshold for major national security breaches of consistent origin past which we should implement focused control measures to mitigate the risk? And what would your control measures be?
      - yibg 5y ago
        I don’t have a definite answer, but it’s not by country of birth. We’ve had too many ugliness in history stemming from that type of grouping. Because if it’s guilty by association (and not even association of one’s choice), then how is this different from the Japanese internment of WW 2? Edit: also, is there any evidence that banning people of a certain birth place is actually effective? We already do background checks, and if those don’t screen out the risks, why would an additional blanket ban help?