7 ms·

It is in the best interests of the owning class to perpetuate myths of upward mobility. If your employees are making minimum wage because they are “young artist

by zwkrt 5y ago

It is in the best interests of the owning class to perpetuate myths of upward mobility. If your employees are making minimum wage because they are “young artistic types who just need some extra cash”, or “it’s just a non-skilled/temp/entry level position”, then it is much easier for the owner, the management chain, the customer, and the media to justify how terribly leaf-nodes on the org chart are treated. This leads to the mast majority of jobs becoming temp, “gigs”, part-time, commission-based, no benefits, no reward for loyalty, no reward for seniority, and with the only hope for mobility is becoming a manager over the other poor souls you would crush in an instant for an extra $4/hr (less in practice!) If we had a strong set of myths about taking pride in ones work, mutual respect, venerability, and craftsmanship, I think we would not put up with it. I personally cannot even walk into a Macdonald’s because the environment behind the counter is so obviously demeaning; it disgusts me that we would eat in front of people who are constantly under survaeilance, slaves to beeping mechanical masters, and that they get $8.25/hr, less than the price of a single person’s order.

subpixel 5y ago
In fact, McDonalds uses the numbers of employees who are no longer employees as validation that they are offering some sort of bridge into the workforce. To hear them spin it, the McJob is a sort of stepping stone, by magnanimous design.
- WorldMaker 5y ago
  While also working as hard as possible to automate every task in the system and remove as many of these "stepping stones" as possible. Semi-relatedly, I don't think a lot of people yet realize how many McDonalds went "dark" and nearly fully automated in the last two years. There are entire McDonald's now that are Delivery Only, the Delivery is outsourced to one of the providers like DoorDash and presumably the number of staff working inside the McDonalds is down to two or three people, tops.
harlanji 5y ago
Exactly. I found myself in retail jobs after 20 years in tech and a large % of colleagues had 2-3 jobs and were in their late 20s-mid 30s. Managers tended to be in their early or mid 20’s and one GM left for academia. Nobody asked how I found myself there in my mid-30’s and seemingly inexperienced in retail, thankfully I pass as pretty young. There isn’t a clear path out for most. I’m educated but have other issues blocking me from getting another professional job. In theory anyone can start their own business with all the new tech available, but in practice few seemed to have the time to take care of themselves properly much less start much of a business while learning the tools as well. It would be quite an investment and few had the budget for it, so to speak. The kitchens especially were packed with career service people well into adulthood. Service is a career. Not meaning to sound judgemental, quite the opposite is true. Do mean to say that there aren’t many paths out and there is probably a lot to the business that even an educated person requires experience to learn and adapt to. Management usn’t for everyone either, like with coding it may not be the right career track for most but people do it for the pay bump or as a stepping stone toward corporate and IMO the whole team suffers.
- the_only_law 5y ago
  > Nobody asked how I found myself there in my mid-30’s and seemingly inexperienced in retail. How did you end up there, after two decades in tech.
- giantg2 5y ago
  I worked at Lowes one summer in addition to my dev job. There was no upward mobility at my dev job, so I made a little extra money that way. I had a customer ask me about college for some reason (maybe an old t-shirt I was wearing). I also had a few coworkers and customers ask me about my other job or make a comment about how there are some good opportunities in some field. It was kind of funny to see their reactions when they I'd tell them I'm a software developer with a Masters degree. Although it's also depressing to see that the best way to make more money isn't to work harder and get promoted, but to find an easy second job.
cdiamand 5y ago
McDonalds DID make for an awesome starting job, in my experience. I worked there as a teen and had a host of positive life experiences in that first role. I made a bunch of new friends with people my age. I got my first paycheck and it put cleanly into focus the value of money and how HARD it can be to make it if you work....at McDonalds. Was also exposed to the workings of possibly one of the largest business machines on the planet. It's automation incarnate and kind of a beautiful thing.
- AJ007 5y ago
  Agreed, I wonder what kind of entry level job the parent poster had. Maybe none.
- hh3k0 5y ago
  > McDonalds DID make for an awesome starting job, in my experience. I worked there as a teen and had a host of positive life experiences in that first role. What year did you work there as a teen, if I may ask?
- bserge 5y ago
  I'll tell you what, my first actual jobby job was managing a number of printers, plotters, copiers and PCs at 2 locations. At 16. I was paid twice the average wage. It taught me making money is easy. 2 years later I was earning 10x the average wage doing affiliate marketing in a country where few even heard of it. Money was no issue. Spent it all, there's always more, right? 2008 was a very rude awakening and to be honest I've never recovered from that. Wish I could've worked at some factory first.
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
  The difference was you knew you would never be there too long. It was a transitory job. Now, it a career for many people.
  - GaryTang 5y ago
    Higher and higher pushes for min wage has been decreasing the number of available transitory jobs as well, thus likely hurting more people than it helps.
giantg2 5y ago
"...no reward for loyalty, no reward for seniority, and with the only hope for mobility is becoming a manager..." Sounds like my job as a developer.
hellbannedguy 5y ago
I agree now as an adult. I avoid any establishment that is filled up with cheap labor. (I guess it's not PC to say that, but I just look around, and it doesn't take MFCC in psychology, to reconigize miserable low wage employees. Safeway is the exception. I can't afford to shop anywhere else.) My brother loved working at MD's as a teen. It bought his first car, and CB radio. Plus--he knew it was a transitory job, and not a career. (My brother got lucky in life. He kissed my father's arse when he was dying, and ended up with a million dollar home. Money from 3-4 generations going to my brother. If all likelihood, he would probally be dead, or homeless, without it. I told my brothers story because it's very common America, but won't last.) America used to fill these positions with teens, and semi-retired folks. Now---corporations know they can pull in adults who really need the job. Yes, that seems to have changed since Covid, but I don't think it will last. No one wants to be homeless, and watch how companies will advertise their lousy jobs in the next few months. That whole, "Get your side hustle on while we offer a chit part time job, and one day you will be a American Success." The Republicans started the mantra before Delta, with the whole, "Work brings self worth. A hard days work build character. You don't want to be a slacker." And it's always from the same politician, or poloticians, whom are nursing a hangover, burping up that steak dinner, with the famous father's last name, has a company that was investigated by federal government for wage/employment violations, who state is near the bottom in every conceivable metric. So go out there and get your side hussle on. Don't get sick. Wear our app on your wrist, and remember we are always watching.

by zwkrt 5y ago

subpixel 5y ago

In fact, McDonalds uses the numbers of employees who are no longer employees as validation that they are offering some sort of bridge into the workforce. To hear them spin it, the McJob is a sort of stepping stone, by magnanimous design.

WorldMaker 5y ago
While also working as hard as possible to automate every task in the system and remove as many of these "stepping stones" as possible. Semi-relatedly, I don't think a lot of people yet realize how many McDonalds went "dark" and nearly fully automated in the last two years. There are entire McDonald's now that are Delivery Only, the Delivery is outsourced to one of the providers like DoorDash and presumably the number of staff working inside the McDonalds is down to two or three people, tops.

harlanji 5y ago

Exactly. I found myself in retail jobs after 20 years in tech and a large % of colleagues had 2-3 jobs and were in their late 20s-mid 30s. Managers tended to be in their early or mid 20’s and one GM left for academia. Nobody asked how I found myself there in my mid-30’s and seemingly inexperienced in retail, thankfully I pass as pretty young. There isn’t a clear path out for most. I’m educated but have other issues blocking me from getting another professional job. In theory anyone can start their own business with all the new tech available, but in practice few seemed to have the time to take care of themselves properly much less start much of a business while learning the tools as well. It would be quite an investment and few had the budget for it, so to speak. The kitchens especially were packed with career service people well into adulthood. Service is a career. Not meaning to sound judgemental, quite the opposite is true. Do mean to say that there aren’t many paths out and there is probably a lot to the business that even an educated person requires experience to learn and adapt to. Management usn’t for everyone either, like with coding it may not be the right career track for most but people do it for the pay bump or as a stepping stone toward corporate and IMO the whole team suffers.

the_only_law 5y ago
> Nobody asked how I found myself there in my mid-30’s and seemingly inexperienced in retail. How did you end up there, after two decades in tech.
giantg2 5y ago
I worked at Lowes one summer in addition to my dev job. There was no upward mobility at my dev job, so I made a little extra money that way. I had a customer ask me about college for some reason (maybe an old t-shirt I was wearing). I also had a few coworkers and customers ask me about my other job or make a comment about how there are some good opportunities in some field. It was kind of funny to see their reactions when they I'd tell them I'm a software developer with a Masters degree. Although it's also depressing to see that the best way to make more money isn't to work harder and get promoted, but to find an easy second job.

cdiamand 5y ago

McDonalds DID make for an awesome starting job, in my experience. I worked there as a teen and had a host of positive life experiences in that first role. I made a bunch of new friends with people my age. I got my first paycheck and it put cleanly into focus the value of money and how HARD it can be to make it if you work....at McDonalds. Was also exposed to the workings of possibly one of the largest business machines on the planet. It's automation incarnate and kind of a beautiful thing.

AJ007 5y ago
Agreed, I wonder what kind of entry level job the parent poster had. Maybe none.
hh3k0 5y ago
> McDonalds DID make for an awesome starting job, in my experience. I worked there as a teen and had a host of positive life experiences in that first role. What year did you work there as a teen, if I may ask?
bserge 5y ago
I'll tell you what, my first actual jobby job was managing a number of printers, plotters, copiers and PCs at 2 locations. At 16. I was paid twice the average wage. It taught me making money is easy. 2 years later I was earning 10x the average wage doing affiliate marketing in a country where few even heard of it. Money was no issue. Spent it all, there's always more, right? 2008 was a very rude awakening and to be honest I've never recovered from that. Wish I could've worked at some factory first.
hellbannedguy 5y ago
The difference was you knew you would never be there too long. It was a transitory job. Now, it a career for many people.
- GaryTang 5y ago
  Higher and higher pushes for min wage has been decreasing the number of available transitory jobs as well, thus likely hurting more people than it helps.

giantg2 5y ago

"...no reward for loyalty, no reward for seniority, and with the only hope for mobility is becoming a manager..." Sounds like my job as a developer.

hellbannedguy 5y ago

I agree now as an adult. I avoid any establishment that is filled up with cheap labor. (I guess it's not PC to say that, but I just look around, and it doesn't take MFCC in psychology, to reconigize miserable low wage employees. Safeway is the exception. I can't afford to shop anywhere else.) My brother loved working at MD's as a teen. It bought his first car, and CB radio. Plus--he knew it was a transitory job, and not a career. (My brother got lucky in life. He kissed my father's arse when he was dying, and ended up with a million dollar home. Money from 3-4 generations going to my brother. If all likelihood, he would probally be dead, or homeless, without it. I told my brothers story because it's very common America, but won't last.) America used to fill these positions with teens, and semi-retired folks. Now---corporations know they can pull in adults who really need the job. Yes, that seems to have changed since Covid, but I don't think it will last. No one wants to be homeless, and watch how companies will advertise their lousy jobs in the next few months. That whole, "Get your side hustle on while we offer a chit part time job, and one day you will be a American Success." The Republicans started the mantra before Delta, with the whole, "Work brings self worth. A hard days work build character. You don't want to be a slacker." And it's always from the same politician, or poloticians, whom are nursing a hangover, burping up that steak dinner, with the famous father's last name, has a company that was investigated by federal government for wage/employment violations, who state is near the bottom in every conceivable metric. So go out there and get your side hussle on. Don't get sick. Wear our app on your wrist, and remember we are always watching.