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Yup, tax carbon use of energy on the way into the data centre, let microsoft, google, amazon etc work out how they want to charge it. Data centers in say south

Yup, tax carbon use of energy on the way into the data centre, let microsoft, google, amazon etc work out how they want to charge it. Data centers in say south island new zealand powered by hydro will have near-zero carbon cost and thus be cheaper The biggest issue with a carbon tax and data centre usage is how to charge tax on the 'import' of services.

robocat 5y ago
> Data centers in say south island new zealand powered by hydro will have near-zero carbon cost This is an incorrect mental model that is unfortunately repeated by so many people. All¹ of the NZ hydro power is currently used by consumers. If we add some extra load, then the marginal increase in kWh is 100% generated by gas (or maybe even coal at Huntley). The same problem occurs when you buy “green” energy: unless you are careful to ensure your purchase creates new green generation, then it is just greenwashing (fooling oneself). This is a significant problem with CO2 credits (not saying you shouldn’t try, but don’t be surprised that CO2 production remains the same even if you try to offset). ¹ There may be short periods when the lakes are full, and water is spilled instead of being used for electricity generation, but that certainly isn’t common.
- heisenzombie 5y ago
  You're not wrong. Perhaps the most charitable interpretation given they specify the South Island is they're assuming that we would displace the energy use of the Tiwai Point aluminium smelter. Given that's about 13% of our total energy use, is powered by hydro dams without the grid capacity to transport to population centres, and run by Rio Tinto who keep threatening to throw their toys and go home... (Of course, the other option would be to build the bloody grid capacity to get energy to where we need it, but that's a different story I guess.)

robocat 5y ago

> Data centers in say south island new zealand powered by hydro will have near-zero carbon cost This is an incorrect mental model that is unfortunately repeated by so many people. All¹ of the NZ hydro power is currently used by consumers. If we add some extra load, then the marginal increase in kWh is 100% generated by gas (or maybe even coal at Huntley). The same problem occurs when you buy “green” energy: unless you are careful to ensure your purchase creates new green generation, then it is just greenwashing (fooling oneself). This is a significant problem with CO2 credits (not saying you shouldn’t try, but don’t be surprised that CO2 production remains the same even if you try to offset). ¹ There may be short periods when the lakes are full, and water is spilled instead of being used for electricity generation, but that certainly isn’t common.

heisenzombie 5y ago
You're not wrong. Perhaps the most charitable interpretation given they specify the South Island is they're assuming that we would displace the energy use of the Tiwai Point aluminium smelter. Given that's about 13% of our total energy use, is powered by hydro dams without the grid capacity to transport to population centres, and run by Rio Tinto who keep threatening to throw their toys and go home... (Of course, the other option would be to build the bloody grid capacity to get energy to where we need it, but that's a different story I guess.)