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The poor, in democracy, will vote for their interests. So, unless you abandon democracy, you won't get the poor to vote carbon taxes. How about we start by put

The poor, in democracy, will vote for their interests. So, unless you abandon democracy, you won't get the poor to vote carbon taxes. How about we start by putting a $1000/flight tax? Seems only fair that the rich, mobile class start reducing their emissions. After all, it's actually the upper classes that consume (by far) energy in gross terms.

nivenkos 5y ago
This just punishes those with family abroad and reduces economic mobility. It'd be hard to tax private jets, so much like the EU has just done with fuel duty, they end up exempting the super-rich and hammering the working class with more taxes.
- fsslrisrchr 5y ago
  So it punishes me that whose closest family is 500 km away. The next closest is 1000 km away and then half way across the world. A $100/flight tax for a family of 5 would bug me, but wouldn't stop me from flying. $1000/flight certainly would give me a pause. My proposal is against my own interests.
mint2 5y ago
It’s actually more efficient for a person to fly 400mi in a reasonably full plain than it is to drive solo in an average American car
- fsslrisrchr 5y ago
  While true, this is a very dishonest view of the environmental impact of flying. At best, assuming a full flight and a long route, say >500 mi, (taking off is a large, fixed, cost) an aircraft gets about 100 passenger miles per gallon. Few ppl drive >100 mi by themselves. When I drive >300 mi, it's in a car full of five ppl. My big, mean, SUV gets 28 mpg * 5 passengers = 140 passenger miles/gallon. Or better than any fully laden airplane. The car is also fully laden, and I'm considering adding a hitch so I can attach a tray for more cargo (putting cargo on your roof kills your mpg) Also, I think the pandemic has demonstrated that most flying is discretionary. Stressed out management class types unwinding in a paradise island thousands of miles away. Or traveling to a conference. Very few passengers are a specialist that needs to be onsite. Add to that that flying necessarily means long distance runs, and it enables long distance travel. Meaning flying has enabled the transformation of society from a local, regional society, into a global one. One that consumes far more resources (for example, flying half way across the world to visit grandparents because your job is no longer available in your home country)

nivenkos 5y ago

This just punishes those with family abroad and reduces economic mobility. It'd be hard to tax private jets, so much like the EU has just done with fuel duty, they end up exempting the super-rich and hammering the working class with more taxes.

fsslrisrchr 5y ago
So it punishes me that whose closest family is 500 km away. The next closest is 1000 km away and then half way across the world. A $100/flight tax for a family of 5 would bug me, but wouldn't stop me from flying. $1000/flight certainly would give me a pause. My proposal is against my own interests.

mint2 5y ago

It’s actually more efficient for a person to fly 400mi in a reasonably full plain than it is to drive solo in an average American car

fsslrisrchr 5y ago
While true, this is a very dishonest view of the environmental impact of flying. At best, assuming a full flight and a long route, say >500 mi, (taking off is a large, fixed, cost) an aircraft gets about 100 passenger miles per gallon. Few ppl drive >100 mi by themselves. When I drive >300 mi, it's in a car full of five ppl. My big, mean, SUV gets 28 mpg * 5 passengers = 140 passenger miles/gallon. Or better than any fully laden airplane. The car is also fully laden, and I'm considering adding a hitch so I can attach a tray for more cargo (putting cargo on your roof kills your mpg) Also, I think the pandemic has demonstrated that most flying is discretionary. Stressed out management class types unwinding in a paradise island thousands of miles away. Or traveling to a conference. Very few passengers are a specialist that needs to be onsite. Add to that that flying necessarily means long distance runs, and it enables long distance travel. Meaning flying has enabled the transformation of society from a local, regional society, into a global one. One that consumes far more resources (for example, flying half way across the world to visit grandparents because your job is no longer available in your home country)