3 ms·

You know? It's not like the already existing pipelines into those countries are made obsolete by NS2. It just robs them of some...let's say 'leverage' or even e

You know? It's not like the already existing pipelines into those countries are made obsolete by NS2. It just robs them of some...let's say 'leverage' or even extortion. If they don't like the pipelines they can buy LNG on the world market from whomever? Where is the problem with that? Cry me a river!

unethical_ban 5y ago
Yes. That's the point. I don't even think it's a hidden thing, or something to be "diplomatic" about. The issue with NS2 that I have heard, explicitly states that it reduces the amount of geopolitical strength Poland and Ukraine have against Russia, while increasing the leverage Russia has against them and the rest of Europe. Russia is openly an economic adversary of Europe and the United States, and is openly hostile to several countries in the east. Germany "went it alone", as far as I know, in order to get better prices. My understanding of this topic is limited, so I admit my ignorance here. It simply doesn't make sense to give geopolitical strength to a rival by handicapping your nearer neighbors.
onepointsixC 5y ago
Having the transit pipelines going through Eastern Europe meant that Russia cannot sell to their most lucrative customer, Germany, while not selling to Eastern Europe. Isn't it a peculiar coincidence that the moment the US withdrew their opposition to NS2, Russia has supply issues? With NS2 up and running they'll sell just enough to Germany to put pressure on the Baltic states, Ukraine, and Poland.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
  Russia has no supply issues. Gazprom is providing infrastructure, and other suppliers pump it empty like mad. Another one called Uniper, the largest AFAIK was at 77% full about 2 weeks ago. Hoarded. If you were Gazprom, and so far delivered according to contract, and even more, would you still deliver more to the conditions of those contracts, just so that other leeches can suck it out, and get rich quick on a crazy market? Why?
  - nameme274728 5y ago
    Leeches, hoarding, quick enrichment ... you make it sound like Gazprom is the good guy doing community service for a penny :D
    - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
      Wasn't my intent. The fact is they are not only operating the pipelines, but also large own parts of the storage. Germany sold these to them. Goes against my guts, but that's how it is. But theirs is not the only, and not even the largest storage. So in principle them not owning that storage wouldn't change a thing. So there are contracts. Which go by volume, and not continous uninterrupted flow. They delivered the volume and some more. And now it isn't gone, burnt, and 'gone with the wind', but bought by others in anticipation of rising prices, either still residing in that storage, just owned by someone else, or pumped to other storage, anticipating good sales opportunity. How would you call that? Clever business? While lobotomizing Gazprom, Russia, whomever? What's so hard to get about this? They are not the bad actors here.

unethical_ban 5y ago

Yes. That's the point. I don't even think it's a hidden thing, or something to be "diplomatic" about. The issue with NS2 that I have heard, explicitly states that it reduces the amount of geopolitical strength Poland and Ukraine have against Russia, while increasing the leverage Russia has against them and the rest of Europe. Russia is openly an economic adversary of Europe and the United States, and is openly hostile to several countries in the east. Germany "went it alone", as far as I know, in order to get better prices. My understanding of this topic is limited, so I admit my ignorance here. It simply doesn't make sense to give geopolitical strength to a rival by handicapping your nearer neighbors.

onepointsixC 5y ago

Having the transit pipelines going through Eastern Europe meant that Russia cannot sell to their most lucrative customer, Germany, while not selling to Eastern Europe. Isn't it a peculiar coincidence that the moment the US withdrew their opposition to NS2, Russia has supply issues? With NS2 up and running they'll sell just enough to Germany to put pressure on the Baltic states, Ukraine, and Poland.

LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
Russia has no supply issues. Gazprom is providing infrastructure, and other suppliers pump it empty like mad. Another one called Uniper, the largest AFAIK was at 77% full about 2 weeks ago. Hoarded. If you were Gazprom, and so far delivered according to contract, and even more, would you still deliver more to the conditions of those contracts, just so that other leeches can suck it out, and get rich quick on a crazy market? Why?
- nameme274728 5y ago
  Leeches, hoarding, quick enrichment ... you make it sound like Gazprom is the good guy doing community service for a penny :D
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    Wasn't my intent. The fact is they are not only operating the pipelines, but also large own parts of the storage. Germany sold these to them. Goes against my guts, but that's how it is. But theirs is not the only, and not even the largest storage. So in principle them not owning that storage wouldn't change a thing. So there are contracts. Which go by volume, and not continous uninterrupted flow. They delivered the volume and some more. And now it isn't gone, burnt, and 'gone with the wind', but bought by others in anticipation of rising prices, either still residing in that storage, just owned by someone else, or pumped to other storage, anticipating good sales opportunity. How would you call that? Clever business? While lobotomizing Gazprom, Russia, whomever? What's so hard to get about this? They are not the bad actors here.