7 ms·

Off-topic, but I just learned about another, practical networking utility, yesterday. "powerline adaptors" [0] Basically, buy these adaptors and for ~$100, yo

Off-topic, but I just learned about another, practical networking utility, yesterday. "powerline adaptors" [0] Basically, buy these adaptors and for ~$100, you can have create a "wired" LAN connection using power outlets in a home. [0] https://www.techradar.com/news/the-best-powerline-adaptors https://www.techradar.com/news/the-best-powerline-adaptors

techopoly 5y ago
Can confirm, these are legit. Make sure you're aware of any outlets on the outside of your building though, as these could be plugged into with malicious intent.
- severino 5y ago
  > Make sure you're aware of any outlets on the outside of your building though I guess this also means inside your neighbor's home, if you live in an apartment building, right? That's why those devices typically use AES for encrypting the signal between the paired ones.
  - cma 5y ago
    I would assume any neighbor's houses that come off the same transformer too.
jchw 5y ago
In practice, my problem with these is reliability. They can have noticeable issues with maintaining an uninterrupted, low latency connection suitable for real time use, in my experience; and this was with a fairly high end powerline adapter. This is unfortunate, because it would be very convenient if you didn’t have to deal with making ethernet cable runs all over the place…
- gattilorenz 5y ago
  > In practice, my problem with these is reliability. They can have noticeable issues with maintaining an uninterrupted, low latency connection True,especially when a microwave, washing machine or other motor starts sending noise down the power line...
thecal 5y ago
I've used these for over a decade with limited success. Their performance is very specific to your wiring and can be fouled up with lots of things. Mine was sometimes no faster than WiFi. MoCA (Ethernet over coax wiring like for cable/satellite TV) seems to work better.
- Lammy 5y ago
  I had a lot more success with them after popping my electrical panel open and rearranging the relevant outlet circuits to all be on the same AC phase (making sure not to unbalance the amperage load since some were 15As and some were 20)
  - function_seven 5y ago
    I can't believe I haven't thought of that! I'm using a pair of TPLinks to feed a wifi router on the opposite side of my house. The outlets are definitely on opposite phases, but the powerline adapters still work reasonably well. (~80Mbps). Now I'm realizing I should probably swap a couple of circuits and improve that connection.
  - EricE 5y ago
    It would be far easier to just get a phase coupler http://cache-m2.smarthome.com/manuals/4826a.pdf http://cache-m2.smarthome.com/manuals/4826a.pdf But brute force works too :)
tylerfontaine 5y ago
I have had these jump outside of my house. I realize how crazy it sounds, but I had a pair (they were not encrypted - this was long ago, and I don't even know if encrypted ones existed) and my neighbor had a pair. I would, very occasionally, end up getting DHCP answered by the router in their network. It took forever to figure out what was causing this, and I eventually figured it out by doing a (very slow) IP scan of every device on the network I was connecting to and finding a machine named with their first and last name. Unplugged the thing, and the problem went away forever. If it hadn't happened to me, it's something I would have thought impossible! (edited a small typo)
- toast0 5y ago
  Doesn't sound crazy at all, there's not really anything in your breaker panel or your meter or the outside wiring designed to stop these signals, it's just that there's also nothing designed to help the signals make it through all that, so you wouldn't expect it to continue beyond your house. Just like they tend not to work very well when used on different circuits, they shouldn't work very well outside your house, which is certainly not on the same breaker at all. I think the newer ones all have some sort of encryption/pairing system which at least helps you ignore your neighbors transmissions.
  - EricE 5y ago
    There are phase bridges to ensure powerline signals are on both phases in the typical US house, and phase filters available that filter the powerline frequencies - they were originally conceived not so much for leaking out, but preventing noise from leaking in and interfering with powerline stuff. X10 users have used them for years - you can find them with vendors that specialize in dealing with the X10 community or home automation; although with the wireless mesh networks like Zwave or Zigbee a lot of the powerline stuff has (thankfully) fallen by the wayside. Another way to get wired internet without possibly running new cable is with MOCA - ethernet over coax. You can find cheap DirecTV branded MOCA adapters all over the place. Most are 100Mbps but if you watch the newer ones are gigabit capable.
    - 5y ago
thescriptkiddie 5y ago
These are useful, but they add ~16 ms of latency, and depending on the quality of wiring and appliances in your building they can be very unreliable. A better option if you have RG-6 wiring is MoCA.
WaitWaitWha 5y ago
They are excellent solution where you cannot run Ethernet to, and do not want to use WiFi. I used it in home automation (Thank you Home Assistant) for mostly sensors, and less important actuators, where I had power, but could not get Ethernet, or WiFi. Anything else, very unstable and too much latency.
WorldMaker 5y ago
It would be more practical in many places now to use leftover "hardline" phone plugs, especially because when they are disconnected from service they are sometimes quite literally disconnected and you have much fewer concerns about bleedover into neighbors. Speeds won't be great for that sort of ethernet-over-phone wire, especially because most landlines used awful, cheeap wires, but in some cases it is faster than powerline adaptors. Unfortunately all the companies that produce such equipment for "phone line adaptors" sell only to the phone companies and never directly to consumers. So many houses today have vestigial phone wires that no one is using for anything.
- zz865 5y ago
  This happened to me. The phone lines are actually cat5 so just need a new socket for home ethernet. That was a happy day.
- wl 5y ago
  I've seen a lot of phone runs done with cat5e. Phone line adapters might not even be necessary in many cases, only new wallplates!
  - WorldMaker 5y ago
    It is nice if you are lucky and the installers weren't cheap. I've seen a few of the places that use Cat 5 to service phone cabling do crazy things in the walls like split twisted pairs to different wall plates and bad cheap phone transformers (that grossly bleedover noise across the twisted pairs, entirely removing the benefits of twisted pairs in the first place in some cases) in long Cat 5 runs. There's a lot of things that made Cat 5 cheap for running phone lines in houses and most of them make Cat 5 useless for Ethernet, unfortunately.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    My house has all cat5e, and I've been very happy with it. Much faster and more reliable than wifi.
  - gh02t 5y ago
TakerofVita 5y ago
You can also get these for running ethernet over coax as well. Can't speak of the experience, though I'd bet it would be better than over power because it is isolated. My apartment has some places that have coax runs but not ethernet runs.
josteink 5y ago
> Off-topic, but I just learned about another, practical networking utility, yesterday. "powerline adaptors" Their performance depends on the electrical wiring in your house. Ironically for me I’ve only managed to make them work on older electrical installations, and even then it was at best 802.11n speeds. In my current house (newly built 2018), I can’t even get them to handshake. I suspect it’s due to improved electrical standards and better isolation between different circuits internally in the house, but I honestly don’t know.
- sumedh 5y ago
  Does it work between two outlets in the same room. If that works but multi room does not then probably you have different circuits internally.

techopoly 5y ago

Can confirm, these are legit. Make sure you're aware of any outlets on the outside of your building though, as these could be plugged into with malicious intent.

severino 5y ago
> Make sure you're aware of any outlets on the outside of your building though I guess this also means inside your neighbor's home, if you live in an apartment building, right? That's why those devices typically use AES for encrypting the signal between the paired ones.
- cma 5y ago
  I would assume any neighbor's houses that come off the same transformer too.

jchw 5y ago

In practice, my problem with these is reliability. They can have noticeable issues with maintaining an uninterrupted, low latency connection suitable for real time use, in my experience; and this was with a fairly high end powerline adapter. This is unfortunate, because it would be very convenient if you didn’t have to deal with making ethernet cable runs all over the place…

gattilorenz 5y ago
> In practice, my problem with these is reliability. They can have noticeable issues with maintaining an uninterrupted, low latency connection True,especially when a microwave, washing machine or other motor starts sending noise down the power line...

thecal 5y ago

I've used these for over a decade with limited success. Their performance is very specific to your wiring and can be fouled up with lots of things. Mine was sometimes no faster than WiFi. MoCA (Ethernet over coax wiring like for cable/satellite TV) seems to work better.

Lammy 5y ago
I had a lot more success with them after popping my electrical panel open and rearranging the relevant outlet circuits to all be on the same AC phase (making sure not to unbalance the amperage load since some were 15As and some were 20)
- function_seven 5y ago
  I can't believe I haven't thought of that! I'm using a pair of TPLinks to feed a wifi router on the opposite side of my house. The outlets are definitely on opposite phases, but the powerline adapters still work reasonably well. (~80Mbps). Now I'm realizing I should probably swap a couple of circuits and improve that connection.
- EricE 5y ago
  It would be far easier to just get a phase coupler http://cache-m2.smarthome.com/manuals/4826a.pdf http://cache-m2.smarthome.com/manuals/4826a.pdf But brute force works too :)

tylerfontaine 5y ago

I have had these jump outside of my house. I realize how crazy it sounds, but I had a pair (they were not encrypted - this was long ago, and I don't even know if encrypted ones existed) and my neighbor had a pair. I would, very occasionally, end up getting DHCP answered by the router in their network. It took forever to figure out what was causing this, and I eventually figured it out by doing a (very slow) IP scan of every device on the network I was connecting to and finding a machine named with their first and last name. Unplugged the thing, and the problem went away forever. If it hadn't happened to me, it's something I would have thought impossible! (edited a small typo)

toast0 5y ago
Doesn't sound crazy at all, there's not really anything in your breaker panel or your meter or the outside wiring designed to stop these signals, it's just that there's also nothing designed to help the signals make it through all that, so you wouldn't expect it to continue beyond your house. Just like they tend not to work very well when used on different circuits, they shouldn't work very well outside your house, which is certainly not on the same breaker at all. I think the newer ones all have some sort of encryption/pairing system which at least helps you ignore your neighbors transmissions.
- EricE 5y ago
  There are phase bridges to ensure powerline signals are on both phases in the typical US house, and phase filters available that filter the powerline frequencies - they were originally conceived not so much for leaking out, but preventing noise from leaking in and interfering with powerline stuff. X10 users have used them for years - you can find them with vendors that specialize in dealing with the X10 community or home automation; although with the wireless mesh networks like Zwave or Zigbee a lot of the powerline stuff has (thankfully) fallen by the wayside. Another way to get wired internet without possibly running new cable is with MOCA - ethernet over coax. You can find cheap DirecTV branded MOCA adapters all over the place. Most are 100Mbps but if you watch the newer ones are gigabit capable.
  - 5y ago

thescriptkiddie 5y ago

These are useful, but they add ~16 ms of latency, and depending on the quality of wiring and appliances in your building they can be very unreliable. A better option if you have RG-6 wiring is MoCA.

WaitWaitWha 5y ago

They are excellent solution where you cannot run Ethernet to, and do not want to use WiFi. I used it in home automation (Thank you Home Assistant) for mostly sensors, and less important actuators, where I had power, but could not get Ethernet, or WiFi. Anything else, very unstable and too much latency.

WorldMaker 5y ago

It would be more practical in many places now to use leftover "hardline" phone plugs, especially because when they are disconnected from service they are sometimes quite literally disconnected and you have much fewer concerns about bleedover into neighbors. Speeds won't be great for that sort of ethernet-over-phone wire, especially because most landlines used awful, cheeap wires, but in some cases it is faster than powerline adaptors. Unfortunately all the companies that produce such equipment for "phone line adaptors" sell only to the phone companies and never directly to consumers. So many houses today have vestigial phone wires that no one is using for anything.

zz865 5y ago
This happened to me. The phone lines are actually cat5 so just need a new socket for home ethernet. That was a happy day.
wl 5y ago
I've seen a lot of phone runs done with cat5e. Phone line adapters might not even be necessary in many cases, only new wallplates!
- WorldMaker 5y ago
  It is nice if you are lucky and the installers weren't cheap. I've seen a few of the places that use Cat 5 to service phone cabling do crazy things in the walls like split twisted pairs to different wall plates and bad cheap phone transformers (that grossly bleedover noise across the twisted pairs, entirely removing the benefits of twisted pairs in the first place in some cases) in long Cat 5 runs. There's a lot of things that made Cat 5 cheap for running phone lines in houses and most of them make Cat 5 useless for Ethernet, unfortunately.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  My house has all cat5e, and I've been very happy with it. Much faster and more reliable than wifi.
- gh02t 5y ago

TakerofVita 5y ago

You can also get these for running ethernet over coax as well. Can't speak of the experience, though I'd bet it would be better than over power because it is isolated. My apartment has some places that have coax runs but not ethernet runs.

josteink 5y ago

> Off-topic, but I just learned about another, practical networking utility, yesterday. "powerline adaptors" Their performance depends on the electrical wiring in your house. Ironically for me I’ve only managed to make them work on older electrical installations, and even then it was at best 802.11n speeds. In my current house (newly built 2018), I can’t even get them to handshake. I suspect it’s due to improved electrical standards and better isolation between different circuits internally in the house, but I honestly don’t know.

sumedh 5y ago
Does it work between two outlets in the same room. If that works but multi room does not then probably you have different circuits internally.