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Am I the only one who sees it as a problem that US and European companies can't really work on China market, but they leave their markets wide open for Chinese

Am I the only one who sees it as a problem that US and European companies can't really work on China market, but they leave their markets wide open for Chinese companies? Like, no company is allowed in US/Europe if it does not recognize Taiwan as an independent state? Isn't it how conforming to local rules and regulations should work? UPD: clarification due to people mentioning Mercedes, etc: my comment was mostly directed at internet companies.

hungryhobo 5y ago
apple, bmw, mercedes benz, ikea would like a word with you
- ausudhz 5y ago
  Microsoft, Tesla, Walmart
- minhazm 5y ago
  I'm guessing they mean internet services. The list of blocked services in China is large. Most of the companies you associate with using the internet in the US are blocked in China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma...
jdlyga 5y ago
That's the unique/controlling way that China works. They block foreign apps to spur the development of local alternatives. But plenty of western businesses have thrived in China. KFC, Pizza Hut, Apple, Audi to name a few off hand. I definitely suggest visiting a Pizza Hut in China some time in your life, it's an experience (they serve wine).
- vonadz 5y ago
  and escargot
endisneigh 5y ago
Plenty of foreign companies operate in China, so not sure what you’re going on about.
runawaybottle 5y ago
This was the digital trade war Trump almost started. He started banning all their tech companies because they banned our tech companies. It’s a totally fair point, but who knows how it would have all ended. We’ll see what happens next year when Xi is up for lifetime appointment. I feel like that’s the world’s one chance to change China.
buryat 5y ago
there’s Huawei and others that can’t work in the US https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/US-China-tensions/US-releases-list-of-59-banned-Chinese-defense-and-tech-companies https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/US-...
RicoElectrico 5y ago
Yeah, the broken reciprocity (and how the West got there) is embarrassing or even upsetting. What if... just what if a few decades ago WTO didn't take Chinese word for it?
- Ekaros 5y ago
  I think any developing or non-western country really should be wary of WTO. In general it doesn't seem to have best interest of them at heart. Instead playing for established players...
shp0ngle 5y ago
Trump almost banned TikTok. Then he lost elections. You don't get to threaten TikTok and win.
thiagoharry 5y ago
> Like, no company is allowed in US/Europe if it does not recognize Taiwan as an independent state? But not even US or most Europe formally recognizes Taiwan as a country. In Europe only Holy See in Vatican recognizes.
bakuninsbart 5y ago
I think you oversimplify the situation, it is actually important to look at things on a case-by-case basis, reciprocity is very complicated. Facebook was banned in China following the Urumqi Riots in 2009, which led to 200 deaths and many more injured. The protests that turned violent were largely organized via Facebook, and the company denied giving out details about the organizers. Not cooperating with law enforcement got them banned. Similarly, Google did not want to enforce Chinese censorship in their search engine, so their services were slowly banned, too. Both companies do follow censorship laws in other countries, like Germany, albeit much more reasonable ones. These are laws that chinese companies must follow, too, but western companies couldn't justify it to their employees, investors and governments, so they pulled out. TikTok would probably be fine with handing over protester data to the FBI if asked. A larger point to press the Chinese on when it comes to economic access are forced joint ventures, which have for example been largely abolished for the EU and are generally receding in importance. Another issue is IP theft, and a court system that (according to some) favors Chinese companies over foreign ones. However, instead of trying to change how China treats our companies, the new way seems to be to just trying to reduce access of chinese companies. The bans of Huawei for example are actually discriminatory, and the idea that TikTok must be sold to be allowed to continue to operate was pretty outrageous. Biden seems to continue with Trumps policies in that regard, but with a much softer touch.

hungryhobo 5y ago

apple, bmw, mercedes benz, ikea would like a word with you

ausudhz 5y ago
Microsoft, Tesla, Walmart
minhazm 5y ago
I'm guessing they mean internet services. The list of blocked services in China is large. Most of the companies you associate with using the internet in the US are blocked in China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_mainland_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma...

jdlyga 5y ago

That's the unique/controlling way that China works. They block foreign apps to spur the development of local alternatives. But plenty of western businesses have thrived in China. KFC, Pizza Hut, Apple, Audi to name a few off hand. I definitely suggest visiting a Pizza Hut in China some time in your life, it's an experience (they serve wine).

vonadz 5y ago
and escargot

endisneigh 5y ago

Plenty of foreign companies operate in China, so not sure what you’re going on about.

runawaybottle 5y ago

This was the digital trade war Trump almost started. He started banning all their tech companies because they banned our tech companies. It’s a totally fair point, but who knows how it would have all ended. We’ll see what happens next year when Xi is up for lifetime appointment. I feel like that’s the world’s one chance to change China.

buryat 5y ago

there’s Huawei and others that can’t work in the US https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/US-China-tensions/US-releases-list-of-59-banned-Chinese-defense-and-tech-companies https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/US-...

RicoElectrico 5y ago

Yeah, the broken reciprocity (and how the West got there) is embarrassing or even upsetting. What if... just what if a few decades ago WTO didn't take Chinese word for it?

Ekaros 5y ago
I think any developing or non-western country really should be wary of WTO. In general it doesn't seem to have best interest of them at heart. Instead playing for established players...

shp0ngle 5y ago

Trump almost banned TikTok. Then he lost elections. You don't get to threaten TikTok and win.

thiagoharry 5y ago

> Like, no company is allowed in US/Europe if it does not recognize Taiwan as an independent state? But not even US or most Europe formally recognizes Taiwan as a country. In Europe only Holy See in Vatican recognizes.

bakuninsbart 5y ago

I think you oversimplify the situation, it is actually important to look at things on a case-by-case basis, reciprocity is very complicated. Facebook was banned in China following the Urumqi Riots in 2009, which led to 200 deaths and many more injured. The protests that turned violent were largely organized via Facebook, and the company denied giving out details about the organizers. Not cooperating with law enforcement got them banned. Similarly, Google did not want to enforce Chinese censorship in their search engine, so their services were slowly banned, too. Both companies do follow censorship laws in other countries, like Germany, albeit much more reasonable ones. These are laws that chinese companies must follow, too, but western companies couldn't justify it to their employees, investors and governments, so they pulled out. TikTok would probably be fine with handing over protester data to the FBI if asked. A larger point to press the Chinese on when it comes to economic access are forced joint ventures, which have for example been largely abolished for the EU and are generally receding in importance. Another issue is IP theft, and a court system that (according to some) favors Chinese companies over foreign ones. However, instead of trying to change how China treats our companies, the new way seems to be to just trying to reduce access of chinese companies. The bans of Huawei for example are actually discriminatory, and the idea that TikTok must be sold to be allowed to continue to operate was pretty outrageous. Biden seems to continue with Trumps policies in that regard, but with a much softer touch.