8 ms·

TikTok has definitely become the platform for short form video content. It used to be YouTube, but it's since matured into a place to watch more well produced

by jdlyga 5y ago

TikTok has definitely become the platform for short form video content. It used to be YouTube, but it's since matured into a place to watch more well produced videos in the 20 minute range. If you haven't given TikTok a chance, try it out.

loloquwowndueo 5y ago
Wasn’t the tiktok app lambasted for being terribly intrusive and data-collecty?
- asadlionpk 5y ago
  1B users don't care. Content is amazing though!
  - Nicksil 5y ago
    1B users don't know.
    - rvz 5y ago
      1B users will find out the hard way just like with every social network: Data breaches. Won’t be surprised to see it eventually happen.
      - crubier 5y ago
        I still have to experience the dire consequences of all breaches my data was leaked in. I guess the worst consequence is probably that I experienced better targeted ads (that were blocked by my ad-blocker anyway?). I'd say 1B users don't really care, and rightly so, because really the data of which Tik-Tok videos you watch is not really something life threatening for most of them.
      - missedthecue 5y ago
        What would even a total and complete data breach reveal about your average user though? That Jane Doe from Billings, Montana loves (has a high interaction rate with) short cat videos, squat exercise tutorials, and relationship-oriented TikToks? None of these 1B users upload their credit card info or social security numbers to the platform.
        flycaliguy 5y ago
        I don’t know how detailed their analytics are, but using TikTok does somewhat resemble some sort of psychological experiment with fast flying stimuli. It figured me out pretty quick.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - rchaud 5y ago
        Nobody's uploading their SSN or CC numbers on TikTok, so who cares? People didn't care after the Equifax hack, and that had far more personal information.
- dzhiurgis 5y ago
  Probably same as fb and insta. Just use it via browser. (It wasn’t trusting my incognito mode when using playwright, but saving session while in iPhone mode worked)
  - burrows 5y ago
    Seems duplicitous to suggest that a web browser provides something like an anonymizing client.
    - treesknees 5y ago
      A web browser prevents access to permissions like contacts, photos, location. I use Facebook and Instagram very rarely but always do so in a web browser for this very reason. It's not that it's "anonymous" since obviously I'm logged in with my own profile, but it helps to compartmentalize their access both in terms of overall permissions, and the timing of that access. Facebook can't push out an update that sends my location somewhere 24/7 if I don't have a Facebook tab open in my browser.
      - dzhiurgis 5y ago
        Exactly this. And exactly this why every page like messenger.com heavily pushes you to install native apps and/or is broken in some peculiar way that makes it barely useful.
      - burrows 5y ago
        How about just not going to Chernobyl rather than repurposing some old scuba and WW2 chemical defense gear into a hazmat suit?
        treesknees 5y ago
        I certainly don't need to justify my reasoning for using Facebook or Instagram to you, but I assure you there are some things which are easier when you have an account. Many small businesses exclusively use FB to post updated hours, for example. I am well aware of the privacy and social issues around using those websites. Being careful and mindful with my access and the content I let them receive (e.g. limiting permissions via a browser instead of native app, not uploading my entire life to the site, not regularly interacting with the content) is how I manage my personal risk. If you're aware of some methods Facebook is using to break out of the browser sandbox and access my content without my permission, then by all means I'm open to review any sources you may have to suggest that my mobile browser is an inappropriate tool for restricting access.
- jjeaff 5y ago
  That and the fact that the company is based in China and thus is fully beholden to any and everything that the Chinese government wants from them, without any checks and balances.
  - beckman466 5y ago
    What about the US-based companies that are fully beholden to any and everything that the US government wants from them, without any checks and balances (as has been proven by Snowden, Assange, etc.)? Please stop with the Sinophobia already https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2020/9/11/sinophobia-the-new-islamophobia https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2020/9/11/sinophobia-the-...
    - lrvick 5y ago
      There are many great reasons to not trust US companies with our data. I for one choose not to in most cases. Hell even the California DMV sells emails and home addresses now. (I only give them a P.O. box) American apathy on data privacy has created some real monsters, but those monsters are not comparable to the CCP. Calling it Sinophobia dismisses it as an irrational fear. It is largely undisputed that the CCP dragnet tracks, manipulates, and censors the most minutiae of details to actively shape and control the culture of billions of people while also disappearing millions that don't conform to be tortured and killed in concentration camps. It should be assumed any product operating under CCP rule will at some point be covertly used to further the surveillance dominance of the CCP. It is possible to have great respect for the Chinese people and their rich history and culture while also having a very healthy fear for giving the CCP more ways to extend their culture control goals beyond their borders. TikTok has already been been caught censoring CCP criticism: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-how-tiktok-censors-videos-that-do-not-please-beijing https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-...
      - beckman466 5y ago
        All of this is easy to say for someone living on the 'other side of Imperialism', as Vijay Prashad beautifully says: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcX2O47NZuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcX2O47NZuc I take issue with everything you've written. You somehow still believe the words you use are themselves evidence (and it's obvious they originate from western media firms who manufacture consent - it impacts you (unconsciously) even if you consider yourself very progressive/leftist). Who controls the world through financial imperialism? It isn't China. Seriously, please consider a few of these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2khAmMTAjI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2khAmMTAjI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJLA2_Ho7X0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJLA2_Ho7X0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fahWWm7uVW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fahWWm7uVW8
- killingtime74 5y ago
  I literally use a second phone to browse things like Tiktok for this reason
- shrikant 5y ago
  People keep saying this. But the app is actually one of the best I've encountered in terms of permissions -- it asks you for pretty much nothing up front, so if you use the app to only watch fun stuff and aren't too invested in it, then you can get by without granting the app any permissions at all!
- jml7c5 5y ago
  There was a reddit post about it (something like "I reverse engineered TikTok and found blah blah"), but it was likely fraudulent. There was also that iOS bug with clipboard notifications. I think those were the source of most of the hubbub.
soco 5y ago
And they probably got there because Twitter killed Vine...
- amanzi 5y ago
  People still share Vines on TikTok!
periphrasis 5y ago
Why would I want to watch short form video content? Genuinely curious here.
- wongarsu 5y ago
  It can convey more information than the stationary images that dominate much of reddit, while taking less effort to consume than text (it's really hard to get people to engage with more than the headline in written content). TikTok is imho one of the closest approximations of a marketplace of ideas, or a penny-university. Every topic under the sun is talked about (even if TikTok tries to censor a bunch of topics), you have various experts from their fields giving insights into their daily lives (like snippets from the daily life on an arctic base) or short tutorials (how to draw an owl kind of stuff), but also discussions about philosophy or how to deal with daily life (e.g. how to declutter your space if you are depressed, or how to arrange furniture). And unlike e.g. YouTube's recommendation algorithm that makes everything seem bland because it only shows you stuff that's like stuff you already know, TikTok's algorithm keeps exposing you to new things tangentially related to what you watched/liked, so it's more like drifting though an ocean of videos, with new stuff happening all the time. That said, TikTok should totally be enjoyed in moderation, and there are some places on TikTok you should avoid. If you linger on videos showing teens twerking, you will get more videos of teens twerking; and it's easy to see how that kind of content makes it a worse place for teens specifically (plus the extreme prevalence of filters, so everyone on TikTok looks "better" than their real life version)
  - periphrasis 5y ago
    Sounds like a gigantic attention suck designed to stimulate addiction. Moreover, it’s unclear to me why opening the floodgates to more human expression without any concern for the quality of that expression is desirable. The virtue of social media seemed self evident in 2006 when we had little experience of what it would mean in practice; in 2021 however, I think the premise that megaphoning unfettered expression is inherently good requires justification, particularly given the instability it has introduced at the societal scale and the addictive behavior, poor mental health, and loss of concentration it has often imposed at the individual level. Individual humans got along just fine for millennia without being able to broadcast the minutia of their thoughts for likes and subscribes: what are we really gaining by suddenly being able to do so in the course of two decades, and is it really worth the trade offs?
daptaq 5y ago
I'll just relink to my last comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28024747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28024747: > My impression is that TikTok is the most shameless exploiter of curating content to maximize attention. You resign all the control and hope to petition "the algorithm" to change what you get to see -- like some kind of a god that ultimatly controls you, no matter what you sacrifice. They are in a position to spread propaganda and prevent imformation from spreading -- or you from being heard. Even more so, this can be individualized (especially with the rise of virtual influencers). I wonder, if it might eventually be able to change someone's mind by slowly nudging them in the right direction, breaking down pre-existing beliefs and positions. And as youtube, twitter, etc. have shown, one of the main ways to increase addiction is to spread controversy. Have people screem and cry at one another, who wants mediation? Society is being reduced to a means of entertainment. Considering that one out of eight human being are using this app is terrifying to me. Even more when considering that people in the third world might be less likely to use a video-intensive service like this, meaning that in the first-world, especially among people my age the rate is even higher! I consider it a concrete danger, that should be taken seriously.
- ausudhz 5y ago
  I think this is a generic statement that can be applied to any social media nowadays. I wonder what's the solution?
  - daptaq 5y ago
    My feeling is that (public) social media doesn't work in general. This is not a technological problem, it is just accelerated by technology.
- wongarsu 5y ago
  Newspapers can spread propaganda or keep information from spreading, or you from being heard. Yes, everyone using TikTok as their only source of news and entertainment is incredibly bad. But that can be said (and has been said) about almost any source of news or entertainment. We should rather teach us and our children healthy engagement with media, how to avoid addiction and how to make sure we engage with different platforms. If you don't let any one platform monopolize your attention, having a Chinese platform as counterbalance to all the American platforms seems great. A Chinese platform is unlikely to have the same interests as a US platform, so it's easier to see the bias in either if you consume both.
kevinlst 5y ago
True, youtube was supposed to be for creator at first. It was popular because of hilarious short videos even their tagline was "Broadcast Yourself"
Proven 5y ago
Thanks but no, thanks. YouTube is already bad enough in terms of time wasted, privacy and more.
worrycue 5y ago
When was YouTube ever the platform for short form content. YouTube has for the longest time pushed for videos of at least 10/15mins in length - else their algorithm will downgrade you. It’s only recently in response to TikTok that they had YouTube Shorts, a “timeline” that occasionally shows up on your feed consisting of 1-3mins(?) videos.
oyebenny 5y ago
Ya, no. Chinese-shillin
- somedude895 5y ago
  Ok I don‘t want to make any unfounded accusations, but every post on Tiktok, there‘s the same kind of comment: „Try Tiktok. The recommendation engine is insane, you have to try it to believe it.“ I’ve tried to see what all the fuss is about multiple times and from what I’ve seen it just seems so out of character for the HN crowd to like that platform.

by jdlyga 5y ago

loloquwowndueo 5y ago

Wasn’t the tiktok app lambasted for being terribly intrusive and data-collecty?

asadlionpk 5y ago
1B users don't care. Content is amazing though!
- Nicksil 5y ago
  1B users don't know.
  - rvz 5y ago
    1B users will find out the hard way just like with every social network: Data breaches. Won’t be surprised to see it eventually happen.
    - crubier 5y ago
      I still have to experience the dire consequences of all breaches my data was leaked in. I guess the worst consequence is probably that I experienced better targeted ads (that were blocked by my ad-blocker anyway?). I'd say 1B users don't really care, and rightly so, because really the data of which Tik-Tok videos you watch is not really something life threatening for most of them.
    - missedthecue 5y ago
      What would even a total and complete data breach reveal about your average user though? That Jane Doe from Billings, Montana loves (has a high interaction rate with) short cat videos, squat exercise tutorials, and relationship-oriented TikToks? None of these 1B users upload their credit card info or social security numbers to the platform.
      - flycaliguy 5y ago
        I don’t know how detailed their analytics are, but using TikTok does somewhat resemble some sort of psychological experiment with fast flying stimuli. It figured me out pretty quick.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - rchaud 5y ago
      Nobody's uploading their SSN or CC numbers on TikTok, so who cares? People didn't care after the Equifax hack, and that had far more personal information.
dzhiurgis 5y ago
Probably same as fb and insta. Just use it via browser. (It wasn’t trusting my incognito mode when using playwright, but saving session while in iPhone mode worked)
- burrows 5y ago
  Seems duplicitous to suggest that a web browser provides something like an anonymizing client.
  - treesknees 5y ago
    A web browser prevents access to permissions like contacts, photos, location. I use Facebook and Instagram very rarely but always do so in a web browser for this very reason. It's not that it's "anonymous" since obviously I'm logged in with my own profile, but it helps to compartmentalize their access both in terms of overall permissions, and the timing of that access. Facebook can't push out an update that sends my location somewhere 24/7 if I don't have a Facebook tab open in my browser.
    - dzhiurgis 5y ago
      Exactly this. And exactly this why every page like messenger.com heavily pushes you to install native apps and/or is broken in some peculiar way that makes it barely useful.
    - burrows 5y ago
      How about just not going to Chernobyl rather than repurposing some old scuba and WW2 chemical defense gear into a hazmat suit?
      - treesknees 5y ago
        I certainly don't need to justify my reasoning for using Facebook or Instagram to you, but I assure you there are some things which are easier when you have an account. Many small businesses exclusively use FB to post updated hours, for example. I am well aware of the privacy and social issues around using those websites. Being careful and mindful with my access and the content I let them receive (e.g. limiting permissions via a browser instead of native app, not uploading my entire life to the site, not regularly interacting with the content) is how I manage my personal risk. If you're aware of some methods Facebook is using to break out of the browser sandbox and access my content without my permission, then by all means I'm open to review any sources you may have to suggest that my mobile browser is an inappropriate tool for restricting access.
jjeaff 5y ago
That and the fact that the company is based in China and thus is fully beholden to any and everything that the Chinese government wants from them, without any checks and balances.
- beckman466 5y ago
  What about the US-based companies that are fully beholden to any and everything that the US government wants from them, without any checks and balances (as has been proven by Snowden, Assange, etc.)? Please stop with the Sinophobia already https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2020/9/11/sinophobia-the-new-islamophobia https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2020/9/11/sinophobia-the-...
  - lrvick 5y ago
    There are many great reasons to not trust US companies with our data. I for one choose not to in most cases. Hell even the California DMV sells emails and home addresses now. (I only give them a P.O. box) American apathy on data privacy has created some real monsters, but those monsters are not comparable to the CCP. Calling it Sinophobia dismisses it as an irrational fear. It is largely undisputed that the CCP dragnet tracks, manipulates, and censors the most minutiae of details to actively shape and control the culture of billions of people while also disappearing millions that don't conform to be tortured and killed in concentration camps. It should be assumed any product operating under CCP rule will at some point be covertly used to further the surveillance dominance of the CCP. It is possible to have great respect for the Chinese people and their rich history and culture while also having a very healthy fear for giving the CCP more ways to extend their culture control goals beyond their borders. TikTok has already been been caught censoring CCP criticism: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-how-tiktok-censors-videos-that-do-not-please-beijing https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/sep/25/revealed-...
    - beckman466 5y ago
      All of this is easy to say for someone living on the 'other side of Imperialism', as Vijay Prashad beautifully says: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcX2O47NZuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcX2O47NZuc I take issue with everything you've written. You somehow still believe the words you use are themselves evidence (and it's obvious they originate from western media firms who manufacture consent - it impacts you (unconsciously) even if you consider yourself very progressive/leftist). Who controls the world through financial imperialism? It isn't China. Seriously, please consider a few of these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2khAmMTAjI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2khAmMTAjI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJLA2_Ho7X0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJLA2_Ho7X0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fahWWm7uVW8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fahWWm7uVW8
killingtime74 5y ago
I literally use a second phone to browse things like Tiktok for this reason
shrikant 5y ago
People keep saying this. But the app is actually one of the best I've encountered in terms of permissions -- it asks you for pretty much nothing up front, so if you use the app to only watch fun stuff and aren't too invested in it, then you can get by without granting the app any permissions at all!
jml7c5 5y ago
There was a reddit post about it (something like "I reverse engineered TikTok and found blah blah"), but it was likely fraudulent. There was also that iOS bug with clipboard notifications. I think those were the source of most of the hubbub.

soco 5y ago

And they probably got there because Twitter killed Vine...

amanzi 5y ago
People still share Vines on TikTok!

periphrasis 5y ago

Why would I want to watch short form video content? Genuinely curious here.

wongarsu 5y ago
It can convey more information than the stationary images that dominate much of reddit, while taking less effort to consume than text (it's really hard to get people to engage with more than the headline in written content). TikTok is imho one of the closest approximations of a marketplace of ideas, or a penny-university. Every topic under the sun is talked about (even if TikTok tries to censor a bunch of topics), you have various experts from their fields giving insights into their daily lives (like snippets from the daily life on an arctic base) or short tutorials (how to draw an owl kind of stuff), but also discussions about philosophy or how to deal with daily life (e.g. how to declutter your space if you are depressed, or how to arrange furniture). And unlike e.g. YouTube's recommendation algorithm that makes everything seem bland because it only shows you stuff that's like stuff you already know, TikTok's algorithm keeps exposing you to new things tangentially related to what you watched/liked, so it's more like drifting though an ocean of videos, with new stuff happening all the time. That said, TikTok should totally be enjoyed in moderation, and there are some places on TikTok you should avoid. If you linger on videos showing teens twerking, you will get more videos of teens twerking; and it's easy to see how that kind of content makes it a worse place for teens specifically (plus the extreme prevalence of filters, so everyone on TikTok looks "better" than their real life version)
- periphrasis 5y ago
  Sounds like a gigantic attention suck designed to stimulate addiction. Moreover, it’s unclear to me why opening the floodgates to more human expression without any concern for the quality of that expression is desirable. The virtue of social media seemed self evident in 2006 when we had little experience of what it would mean in practice; in 2021 however, I think the premise that megaphoning unfettered expression is inherently good requires justification, particularly given the instability it has introduced at the societal scale and the addictive behavior, poor mental health, and loss of concentration it has often imposed at the individual level. Individual humans got along just fine for millennia without being able to broadcast the minutia of their thoughts for likes and subscribes: what are we really gaining by suddenly being able to do so in the course of two decades, and is it really worth the trade offs?

daptaq 5y ago

I'll just relink to my last comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28024747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28024747: > My impression is that TikTok is the most shameless exploiter of curating content to maximize attention. You resign all the control and hope to petition "the algorithm" to change what you get to see -- like some kind of a god that ultimatly controls you, no matter what you sacrifice. They are in a position to spread propaganda and prevent imformation from spreading -- or you from being heard. Even more so, this can be individualized (especially with the rise of virtual influencers). I wonder, if it might eventually be able to change someone's mind by slowly nudging them in the right direction, breaking down pre-existing beliefs and positions. And as youtube, twitter, etc. have shown, one of the main ways to increase addiction is to spread controversy. Have people screem and cry at one another, who wants mediation? Society is being reduced to a means of entertainment. Considering that one out of eight human being are using this app is terrifying to me. Even more when considering that people in the third world might be less likely to use a video-intensive service like this, meaning that in the first-world, especially among people my age the rate is even higher! I consider it a concrete danger, that should be taken seriously.

ausudhz 5y ago
I think this is a generic statement that can be applied to any social media nowadays. I wonder what's the solution?
- daptaq 5y ago
  My feeling is that (public) social media doesn't work in general. This is not a technological problem, it is just accelerated by technology.
wongarsu 5y ago
Newspapers can spread propaganda or keep information from spreading, or you from being heard. Yes, everyone using TikTok as their only source of news and entertainment is incredibly bad. But that can be said (and has been said) about almost any source of news or entertainment. We should rather teach us and our children healthy engagement with media, how to avoid addiction and how to make sure we engage with different platforms. If you don't let any one platform monopolize your attention, having a Chinese platform as counterbalance to all the American platforms seems great. A Chinese platform is unlikely to have the same interests as a US platform, so it's easier to see the bias in either if you consume both.

kevinlst 5y ago

True, youtube was supposed to be for creator at first. It was popular because of hilarious short videos even their tagline was "Broadcast Yourself"

Proven 5y ago

Thanks but no, thanks. YouTube is already bad enough in terms of time wasted, privacy and more.

worrycue 5y ago

When was YouTube ever the platform for short form content. YouTube has for the longest time pushed for videos of at least 10/15mins in length - else their algorithm will downgrade you. It’s only recently in response to TikTok that they had YouTube Shorts, a “timeline” that occasionally shows up on your feed consisting of 1-3mins(?) videos.

oyebenny 5y ago

Ya, no. Chinese-shillin

somedude895 5y ago
Ok I don‘t want to make any unfounded accusations, but every post on Tiktok, there‘s the same kind of comment: „Try Tiktok. The recommendation engine is insane, you have to try it to believe it.“ I’ve tried to see what all the fuss is about multiple times and from what I’ve seen it just seems so out of character for the HN crowd to like that platform.