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Why are you leaving out the context that the principal defense alliance is with America specifically in defense against Russia? Furthermore, it's not just US pr

Why are you leaving out the context that the principal defense alliance is with America specifically in defense against Russia? Furthermore, it's not just US pressure, much of Eastern Europe has been pushing against the NS2. Claiming that the US is acting purely in self serving motives is wildly disingenuous.

bumbada 5y ago
>Why are you leaving out the context that the principal defense alliance is with America specifically in defense against Russia? Specifically against the Soviet Union, a communistic totalitarian regime that does not exist anymore. Specifically it never included Ukraine as member, and specifically the US promised that NATO will never expand to more than the original members. The only countries in Europe that are against the NS2 are those that have already pipelines or interests and are economically harmed by more competence. >Claiming that the US is acting purely in self serving motives is wildly disingenuous. Claiming that the US is acting purely in self serving motives is telling the truth. The US can mind its own business.
- sergeykish 5y ago
  Specifically Russian Federation has invaded Ukraine. Specifically after signing Budapest Memorandum (Ukraine's nuclear disarming). Specifically after signing Russian–Ukrainian Friendship Treaty. Specifically without even admitting invasion! This totally invalidates all the claims regarding NATO. That's defense alliance, everyone who has missed opportunity to join is a total fool. Russian Federation is autocratic regime, just look at the last "elections". East Europe countries were under USSR occupation for 40 years. Poland is going to switch to LNG to break dependency on RF gas.
  - anticodon 5y ago
    Specifically after Ukraine attempted to join NATO since 1991. Specifically after Ukraine made speaking Russian illegal and started treating Russian speaking population as second class citizens. Specifically after Ukraine made plans to give Crimea to US to build a US military base.
    - sergeykish 5y ago
      I am Russian speaking Ukrainian, from Russian speaking city, born in Russian speaking family, mother from Russia, spent quite a lot of time in RF. And you are telling me these lies? I've recently switched to Ukrainian because of your kind. Fascists.
      - anticodon 5y ago
        What exactly is a lie? Half of my family lives in Ukraine. I speak with them several times a year. Before 2014 I visited them at least once a year. They all want to move to Russia because of the rise of nazism. Some of them already moved and they're very happy that they did it. Fascists. Actually, fascists and Hitler are honored in Ukraine on the government level. There's no way to deny it.
        sergeykish 5y ago
        There is nowhere to start. Are you employed by RF propaganda? People freely speak Russian language, though Russian language popularity greatly tanked because people like you. It is eights year of war, so many facts that confirm RF has occupied Ukraine, destroyed cities, killed thousands.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/01/25/basic-notes-on-victoria-fuck-the-eu-nuland/ https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/01/25/basic-notes-on-victo... ctrl-f color revolutions
LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
You know? It's not like the already existing pipelines into those countries are made obsolete by NS2. It just robs them of some...let's say 'leverage' or even extortion. If they don't like the pipelines they can buy LNG on the world market from whomever? Where is the problem with that? Cry me a river!
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  Yes. That's the point. I don't even think it's a hidden thing, or something to be "diplomatic" about. The issue with NS2 that I have heard, explicitly states that it reduces the amount of geopolitical strength Poland and Ukraine have against Russia, while increasing the leverage Russia has against them and the rest of Europe. Russia is openly an economic adversary of Europe and the United States, and is openly hostile to several countries in the east. Germany "went it alone", as far as I know, in order to get better prices. My understanding of this topic is limited, so I admit my ignorance here. It simply doesn't make sense to give geopolitical strength to a rival by handicapping your nearer neighbors.
- onepointsixC 5y ago
  Having the transit pipelines going through Eastern Europe meant that Russia cannot sell to their most lucrative customer, Germany, while not selling to Eastern Europe. Isn't it a peculiar coincidence that the moment the US withdrew their opposition to NS2, Russia has supply issues? With NS2 up and running they'll sell just enough to Germany to put pressure on the Baltic states, Ukraine, and Poland.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    Russia has no supply issues. Gazprom is providing infrastructure, and other suppliers pump it empty like mad. Another one called Uniper, the largest AFAIK was at 77% full about 2 weeks ago. Hoarded. If you were Gazprom, and so far delivered according to contract, and even more, would you still deliver more to the conditions of those contracts, just so that other leeches can suck it out, and get rich quick on a crazy market? Why?
kongin 5y ago
Because no one could be bothered closing NATO after 1993 when the USSR stopped existing?

bumbada 5y ago

>Why are you leaving out the context that the principal defense alliance is with America specifically in defense against Russia? Specifically against the Soviet Union, a communistic totalitarian regime that does not exist anymore. Specifically it never included Ukraine as member, and specifically the US promised that NATO will never expand to more than the original members. The only countries in Europe that are against the NS2 are those that have already pipelines or interests and are economically harmed by more competence. >Claiming that the US is acting purely in self serving motives is wildly disingenuous. Claiming that the US is acting purely in self serving motives is telling the truth. The US can mind its own business.

sergeykish 5y ago
Specifically Russian Federation has invaded Ukraine. Specifically after signing Budapest Memorandum (Ukraine's nuclear disarming). Specifically after signing Russian–Ukrainian Friendship Treaty. Specifically without even admitting invasion! This totally invalidates all the claims regarding NATO. That's defense alliance, everyone who has missed opportunity to join is a total fool. Russian Federation is autocratic regime, just look at the last "elections". East Europe countries were under USSR occupation for 40 years. Poland is going to switch to LNG to break dependency on RF gas.
- anticodon 5y ago
  Specifically after Ukraine attempted to join NATO since 1991. Specifically after Ukraine made speaking Russian illegal and started treating Russian speaking population as second class citizens. Specifically after Ukraine made plans to give Crimea to US to build a US military base.
  - sergeykish 5y ago
    I am Russian speaking Ukrainian, from Russian speaking city, born in Russian speaking family, mother from Russia, spent quite a lot of time in RF. And you are telling me these lies? I've recently switched to Ukrainian because of your kind. Fascists.
    - anticodon 5y ago
      What exactly is a lie? Half of my family lives in Ukraine. I speak with them several times a year. Before 2014 I visited them at least once a year. They all want to move to Russia because of the rise of nazism. Some of them already moved and they're very happy that they did it. Fascists. Actually, fascists and Hitler are honored in Ukraine on the government level. There's no way to deny it.
      - sergeykish 5y ago
        There is nowhere to start. Are you employed by RF propaganda? People freely speak Russian language, though Russian language popularity greatly tanked because people like you. It is eights year of war, so many facts that confirm RF has occupied Ukraine, destroyed cities, killed thousands.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
  https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/01/25/basic-notes-on-victoria-fuck-the-eu-nuland/ https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/01/25/basic-notes-on-victo... ctrl-f color revolutions

LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago

You know? It's not like the already existing pipelines into those countries are made obsolete by NS2. It just robs them of some...let's say 'leverage' or even extortion. If they don't like the pipelines they can buy LNG on the world market from whomever? Where is the problem with that? Cry me a river!

unethical_ban 5y ago
Yes. That's the point. I don't even think it's a hidden thing, or something to be "diplomatic" about. The issue with NS2 that I have heard, explicitly states that it reduces the amount of geopolitical strength Poland and Ukraine have against Russia, while increasing the leverage Russia has against them and the rest of Europe. Russia is openly an economic adversary of Europe and the United States, and is openly hostile to several countries in the east. Germany "went it alone", as far as I know, in order to get better prices. My understanding of this topic is limited, so I admit my ignorance here. It simply doesn't make sense to give geopolitical strength to a rival by handicapping your nearer neighbors.
onepointsixC 5y ago
Having the transit pipelines going through Eastern Europe meant that Russia cannot sell to their most lucrative customer, Germany, while not selling to Eastern Europe. Isn't it a peculiar coincidence that the moment the US withdrew their opposition to NS2, Russia has supply issues? With NS2 up and running they'll sell just enough to Germany to put pressure on the Baltic states, Ukraine, and Poland.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
  Russia has no supply issues. Gazprom is providing infrastructure, and other suppliers pump it empty like mad. Another one called Uniper, the largest AFAIK was at 77% full about 2 weeks ago. Hoarded. If you were Gazprom, and so far delivered according to contract, and even more, would you still deliver more to the conditions of those contracts, just so that other leeches can suck it out, and get rich quick on a crazy market? Why?

kongin 5y ago

Because no one could be bothered closing NATO after 1993 when the USSR stopped existing?