5 ms·

The problem in cities is that as they get more expensive, it is harder for businesses like small restaurants or boutiques to afford rent and labor. They get rep

The problem in cities is that as they get more expensive, it is harder for businesses like small restaurants or boutiques to afford rent and labor. They get replaced by larger chains with big economies of scale that can absorb those costs. You end up with the same chains in every city. Larger cities still may be the best, but the best stuff can often be found on the peripheries, not the expensive core. Tyler Cowan makes a good case for dining at strip mall restaurants in the suburbs. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/05/six-rules-for-dining-out/308929/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/05/six-rul...

pfraze 5y ago
Generally good advice there- Some products have price sensitivity among buyers that stops them from maintaining margins when the environment is too high cost. If you can’t go upscale, you’re going to have to cut costs to the bone and/or leverage scale economics.
lowkey_ 5y ago
If you’ve been to NYC, L.A., London, and so on, this definitely isn’t true — this seems true of smaller cities like Cleveland, Tampa, and San Diego. The largest cities are almost entirely void of most chains, as nobody who lives there wants to eat chain food. (There’s usually some chains in the tourist central area, like Times Square in NYC).
- WillPostForFood 5y ago
  I've lived in LA and it is 100% true. You don't get good Chinese food in the city, or even in Chinatown, it is 20 miles east in Monterey Park. If you want great Vietnamese food, it is 20 miles south in Westminster. Tell me where you think locals hang out in LA and I'll show you the chains that have displaced the smaller businesses. Especially true as Covid shutdowns have hammered smaller businesses. I was just in NYC and Soho which at one point was an interesting part of town, is now dominated by chains. Uniqlo, Nike, Sephora, Sketchers, Ray-Ban. It is a suburban strip mall with better architecture. Do you get better Chinese food in Manhattan or Flushing? The largest cities are almost entirely void of most chains 241 Starbucks in NYC, and they aren't all there to serve locals. https://www.statista.com/statistics/306896/cities-with-the-largest-number-of-starbucks-stores-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/306896/cities-with-the-l...
  - lowkey_ 5y ago
    I was going to add a note that Starbucks is basically the one exception to the rule, in almost any city in the world. :) Look at the number of other big chains in NYC, like Chick-Fil-A, Burger King, Krispy Kreme, Olive Garden, Buffalo Wild Wings, and so on, and you'll see what I mean. If you ever visit NYC again, I can provide a long list of amazing local restaurants that will beat anything in suburbs regardless of neighborhood! I've lived in many places, and the idea that suburbs food will beat city food, or that cities are all 'big chains,' feels like a distinctly small-American-city sentiment. It literally couldn't be further from the truth with regards to NYC.
    - WillPostForFood 5y ago
      the idea that suburbs food will beat city food, or that cities are all 'big chains Whatever, no one said that - that's just a straw man. Do you think there is more interesting and authentic Chinese food in Manhattan or Flushing? I can provide a long list of amazing local restaurants that will beat anything in suburbs Ok, how about the best places for jianbing or lagman?
      - lowkey_ 5y ago
        > Whatever, no one said that - that's just a straw man. The comment was in response to your comment on Tyler Cowen's argument for eating at strip malls in suburbs. > Do you think there is more interesting and authentic Chinese food in Manhattan or Flushing? There's quite fantastic Chinese food in both. It's certainly more expensive in most parts of Manhattan, but the above argument that the expensive parts of New York City is a bunch of large chains is hogwash! There's great, expensive restaurants. Flushing has great, cheaper restaurants. The crux of my point is that large cities do not end up dominated by large chains. In fact, walking through NYC or London, you'll see way, way, way less chains than driving through the suburbs.
thomasahle 5y ago
> They get replaced by larger chains with big economies of scale that can absorb those costs. Why are the larger chains better able to absorb the costs? Don't they still have the same rent and labor costs? Besides, smaller towns seem to suffer from chains just as much in my experience. It feels like a particular problem in the US, though Europe has too many chains for my liking as well. I wonder what laws/regulations are part of this problem, and how they might be changed if we want more independent shops.

pfraze 5y ago

Generally good advice there- Some products have price sensitivity among buyers that stops them from maintaining margins when the environment is too high cost. If you can’t go upscale, you’re going to have to cut costs to the bone and/or leverage scale economics.

lowkey_ 5y ago

If you’ve been to NYC, L.A., London, and so on, this definitely isn’t true — this seems true of smaller cities like Cleveland, Tampa, and San Diego. The largest cities are almost entirely void of most chains, as nobody who lives there wants to eat chain food. (There’s usually some chains in the tourist central area, like Times Square in NYC).

WillPostForFood 5y ago
I've lived in LA and it is 100% true. You don't get good Chinese food in the city, or even in Chinatown, it is 20 miles east in Monterey Park. If you want great Vietnamese food, it is 20 miles south in Westminster. Tell me where you think locals hang out in LA and I'll show you the chains that have displaced the smaller businesses. Especially true as Covid shutdowns have hammered smaller businesses. I was just in NYC and Soho which at one point was an interesting part of town, is now dominated by chains. Uniqlo, Nike, Sephora, Sketchers, Ray-Ban. It is a suburban strip mall with better architecture. Do you get better Chinese food in Manhattan or Flushing? The largest cities are almost entirely void of most chains 241 Starbucks in NYC, and they aren't all there to serve locals. https://www.statista.com/statistics/306896/cities-with-the-largest-number-of-starbucks-stores-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/306896/cities-with-the-l...
- lowkey_ 5y ago
  I was going to add a note that Starbucks is basically the one exception to the rule, in almost any city in the world. :) Look at the number of other big chains in NYC, like Chick-Fil-A, Burger King, Krispy Kreme, Olive Garden, Buffalo Wild Wings, and so on, and you'll see what I mean. If you ever visit NYC again, I can provide a long list of amazing local restaurants that will beat anything in suburbs regardless of neighborhood! I've lived in many places, and the idea that suburbs food will beat city food, or that cities are all 'big chains,' feels like a distinctly small-American-city sentiment. It literally couldn't be further from the truth with regards to NYC.
  - WillPostForFood 5y ago
    the idea that suburbs food will beat city food, or that cities are all 'big chains Whatever, no one said that - that's just a straw man. Do you think there is more interesting and authentic Chinese food in Manhattan or Flushing? I can provide a long list of amazing local restaurants that will beat anything in suburbs Ok, how about the best places for jianbing or lagman?
    - lowkey_ 5y ago
      > Whatever, no one said that - that's just a straw man. The comment was in response to your comment on Tyler Cowen's argument for eating at strip malls in suburbs. > Do you think there is more interesting and authentic Chinese food in Manhattan or Flushing? There's quite fantastic Chinese food in both. It's certainly more expensive in most parts of Manhattan, but the above argument that the expensive parts of New York City is a bunch of large chains is hogwash! There's great, expensive restaurants. Flushing has great, cheaper restaurants. The crux of my point is that large cities do not end up dominated by large chains. In fact, walking through NYC or London, you'll see way, way, way less chains than driving through the suburbs.

thomasahle 5y ago

> They get replaced by larger chains with big economies of scale that can absorb those costs. Why are the larger chains better able to absorb the costs? Don't they still have the same rent and labor costs? Besides, smaller towns seem to suffer from chains just as much in my experience. It feels like a particular problem in the US, though Europe has too many chains for my liking as well. I wonder what laws/regulations are part of this problem, and how they might be changed if we want more independent shops.