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As a Brit, I think "slightly lied to" is a huge under-exaggeration. Literally everyone I spoke to who voted for Brexit did so entirely on the lies, for example

As a Brit, I think "slightly lied to" is a huge under-exaggeration. Literally everyone I spoke to who voted for Brexit did so entirely on the lies, for example the NHS money thing, specific claims about removing "foreigners", and promises of rebuilding of British-only enterprises.

davzie 5y ago
I'm sorry but you can't know that. The vast majority of people had probably made their decision before the messaging kicked in. Also you can claim the same the other way. The only reason people voted to remain is because of the scare of no drinking water, no medicines, fear of an instant market crash etc. Both sides can and were manipulated to some extent by false messaging that never came to be, but certainly not everyone voted the way they did as a result of that messaging.
- tokamak-teapot 5y ago
  You’re replying to someone stating what others have told them, not making an assertion based on something they ‘know’. Did you reply to the wrong comment perhaps?
callamdelaney 5y ago
I seriously doubt this claim 'Literally everyone I spoke to who voted for Brexit did so entirely on the lies' - that seems to be a coping mechanism for anybody on the opposite side of a debate. If I had voted remain you could say I had done so on lies if my motivation was to prevent house prices dropping by 18% [1] - where as actually they have moved about 18% higher [2]. There were no specific claims about removing foreigners, only the factually accurate statement that we could move to a points based immigration system if we wanted to. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referendum-george-osborne-house-prices-brexit https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referend... [2] https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/housing-index https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/housing-index
- joeberon 5y ago
  I'm sorry that the reality I experience does not line up neatly with the one you want to believe
  - callamdelaney 5y ago
    'Literally everyone'? Not me, Joe - so now your previous comment is incorrect.
    - joeberon 5y ago
      I meant people I spoke to in person
  - wsc981 5y ago
    > I'm sorry that the reality I experience does not line up neatly with the one you want to believe Might it not be fairer to state the sentence either as this: > I'm sorry that the reality I want to believe does not line up neatly with the one you want to believe ... or this ... > I'm sorry that the reality I experience does not line up with the reality you experience All in good faith of the discussion.
    - joeberon 5y ago
      I don't think so personally. I see it based on what I know versus what they know. I know about my reality, whereas they want to believe something different about my reality. I'm not saying they want to believe something about their _own_ reality, I'm saying that it is about my own. I had an experience and they are saying "no, you didn't", which is them projecting their belief onto my experience of reality. So I think that both of your examples do not express what I meant.
      - callamdelaney 5y ago
        You have literally stated that any view which differs from yours is based on lies. Let me know how that works out for you. As an aside, this sort of attitude is probably why you ‘better educated’ people lost the vote.
captaincaveman 5y ago
I can't say this is true for everyone that voted, but can sadly confirm that I know for many this is true, certainly had a significant impact in my opinion.

davzie 5y ago

I'm sorry but you can't know that. The vast majority of people had probably made their decision before the messaging kicked in. Also you can claim the same the other way. The only reason people voted to remain is because of the scare of no drinking water, no medicines, fear of an instant market crash etc. Both sides can and were manipulated to some extent by false messaging that never came to be, but certainly not everyone voted the way they did as a result of that messaging.

tokamak-teapot 5y ago
You’re replying to someone stating what others have told them, not making an assertion based on something they ‘know’. Did you reply to the wrong comment perhaps?

callamdelaney 5y ago

I seriously doubt this claim 'Literally everyone I spoke to who voted for Brexit did so entirely on the lies' - that seems to be a coping mechanism for anybody on the opposite side of a debate. If I had voted remain you could say I had done so on lies if my motivation was to prevent house prices dropping by 18% [1] - where as actually they have moved about 18% higher [2]. There were no specific claims about removing foreigners, only the factually accurate statement that we could move to a points based immigration system if we wanted to. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referendum-george-osborne-house-prices-brexit https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referend... [2] https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/housing-index https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/housing-index

joeberon 5y ago
I'm sorry that the reality I experience does not line up neatly with the one you want to believe
- callamdelaney 5y ago
  'Literally everyone'? Not me, Joe - so now your previous comment is incorrect.
  - joeberon 5y ago
    I meant people I spoke to in person
- wsc981 5y ago
  > I'm sorry that the reality I experience does not line up neatly with the one you want to believe Might it not be fairer to state the sentence either as this: > I'm sorry that the reality I want to believe does not line up neatly with the one you want to believe ... or this ... > I'm sorry that the reality I experience does not line up with the reality you experience All in good faith of the discussion.
  - joeberon 5y ago
    I don't think so personally. I see it based on what I know versus what they know. I know about my reality, whereas they want to believe something different about my reality. I'm not saying they want to believe something about their _own_ reality, I'm saying that it is about my own. I had an experience and they are saying "no, you didn't", which is them projecting their belief onto my experience of reality. So I think that both of your examples do not express what I meant.
    - callamdelaney 5y ago
      You have literally stated that any view which differs from yours is based on lies. Let me know how that works out for you. As an aside, this sort of attitude is probably why you ‘better educated’ people lost the vote.

captaincaveman 5y ago

I can't say this is true for everyone that voted, but can sadly confirm that I know for many this is true, certainly had a significant impact in my opinion.