6 ms·

What would they need to do to convince you they don't intend to punish the UK? Would they try to force migrant workers to work in the UK, even against applicab

What would they need to do to convince you they don't intend to punish the UK? Would they try to force migrant workers to work in the UK, even against applicable UK law? Other EU politicians have been quite diplomatic and friendly during the whole thing. A lot unlike a certain Prime Minister from a former EU member I could name.

brightball 5y ago
Just an observation. Ever since the announcement it seems like various groups on Reddit and elsewhere want to celebrate every difficulty that the UK experiences.
- bayesian_horse 5y ago
  Yes, there was razor-thin margin for the Leave campaign, with massive lies being told, partially financed by Russia, and the younger generation generally opposed. It makes travelling in the EU harder, let alone it risks upsetting the Ireland situation. You can expect an international audience to disapprove.
  - timellis-smith 5y ago
    That's quite a claim. Do you have some strong evidence to back it up? The electoral commission went to great lengths and expense to find any wrong doing and came up with nothing. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/04/electoral-commissions-436000-bill-fighting-brexit-campaigner/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20... Edit: Rant alert: It really irks me that the people who call the Brexit election unfair, don't seem to acknowledge that Britain was never given any kind of referendum when joining the EU "Although the United Kingdom ratified the treaty in Parliament, this was not without some opposition. Broadly the governing Labour party supported the treaty, while the opposition Conservatives did not. The Liberal Democrats supported the treaty, while calling for a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU as a whole.[119] Several 'Eurosceptic' MPs called for a referendum on the ratification of the treaty. Daniel Hannan pointed out that the Prime Minister, Tony Blair had twice promised a referendum on the matter, to which Blair replied that he had promised a referendum on the European Constitution rather than the Lisbon Treaty, which unlike the former was not a constitutional treaty.[120] In early October 2007, the Commons' European Scrutiny Committee had found that the treaty was "substantially equivalent" to the rejected constitution.[121]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratification_of_the_Treaty_of_Lisbon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratification_of_the_Treaty_of_...
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      https://brexitlies.com/ https://brexitlies.com/ There's a handy dropdown that lets you pick the lie you want to explore. EDIT: I replied to the wrong comment accidentally due to the delayed rendering from an HN helper extension I use, my apologies. I can't delete the comment once someone has replied to it.
      - timellis-smith 5y ago
        That's all good and well, but I don't think it answered my question about a source for accusations of Russian involvement, nor did it address my question about the lack of democratic process when joining the EU, so I'm not entirely sure why you posted this.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        bayesian_horse 5y ago
        Wikipedia says the investigation is ongoing an there seems to be some evidence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_Brexit_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20... Given what we know about Russian interference in other elections, it would be strange if Putin said "Nah, let's sit this one out..."
    - d1sxeyes 5y ago
      Your source is behind a paywall, and I'm not interested in paying the Telegraph, but it seems there's a factual inaccuracy in your statement - the electoral commission did not 'come up with nothing'. They imposed a fine, referred Vote Leave to the police, and Vote Leave dropped their appeal. https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/media-centre/vote-leave-fined-and-referred-police-breaking-electoral-law https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/media-centre/vote-lea... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/29/vote-leave-drops-appeal-against-fine-for-electoral-offences https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/29/vote-leave-...
- eCa 5y ago
  I don’t think it’s reasonable to equate reddit with other EU member states. As an EU citizen I’m sorry that UK left. And I do hope that things will not get much worse in the UK, though I fear they might. I do think that brexit is the biggest self-inflicted harm a country has voluntarily done to itself in a really long time.
  - hermitcrab 5y ago
    >I do think that brexit is the biggest self-inflicted harm a country has voluntarily done to itself in a really long time. As someone who lives in the UK, I agree.
    - bayesian_horse 5y ago
      POTUS Donald J. Trump is a tough competition, though.
- ben_w 5y ago
  Reddit groups aren’t EU members. And Schadenfreude isn’t punishment.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  I think it's UK remainers pointing out the difficulties. Which is somewhat understandable considering: - Their political opponents have spent months dismissing their concerns as scaremongering. - Many would still like us to rejoin the EU at some point. So it makes sense to point out the advantages of doing so.
  - bayesian_horse 5y ago
    The UK will rejoin at some point, especially because the younger generation will demand it, but it will have to take a decade, more likely two, unless Brexit proves to be an uncontroversial disaster and GB falls behind extremely. I wouldn't wish that on anybody. There is just too much national pride around this move, and the British political system is so thoroughly messed up that it will take one or two leadership generations for them to come to their senses. They can hardly manage the exit, the Reintegration would be even harder.
    - JetSetWilly 5y ago
      > The UK will rejoin at some point, especially because the younger generation will demand it, but it will have to take a decade, more likely two, unless Brexit proves to be an uncontroversial disaster and GB falls behind extremely. I wouldn't wish that on anybody. It seems unlikely. I would say it is more likely that being outside the EU leads to more euroscepticism among the young. Perceiving the sharp end of EU incompetence - triggering article 16 without even informing Ireland - or malice, such as seizing vaccines and the whole propagandistic negative portrayal of the UK during the vaccine rollout in the EU - has already led many a former remainer to think that the EU is not the most fantastic of institutions. It is certainly true that there are many in the EU keen to paint every minor event as some sort of disaster for the UK. They will gladly ignore the wider context of the pandemic, of driver shortages in the EU as well, of this being a purely manufactured demand-side panic buy "shortage" - to gleefully jump up and down shouting about the UK being self harming and it is all 100% brexit. It really comes across as deceitful propaganda I am afraid - and people take note and the EU loses its shine bit by bit.
      - 5y ago
- Isinlor 5y ago
  As a Polish citizen I want to see post-Brexit UK struggle, so that my government doesn't get any stupid ideas of leaving EU.
  - fsslrisrchr 5y ago
    As an Italian citizen, I hope for Poland to leave so my country's net transfers less money to the eastern countries and will, hopefully, encourage Italy to grow a pair and leave
    - bayesian_horse 5y ago
      Italy's economy is almost an integral part of the EU, so Italy leaving would probably end the EU as a whole. Italy's economy would hardly survive both being cut off from the trade union and its major trade partners taking a plunge. And the point of "net transfers" is to build up markets in less developed parts of Europe. No European country benefits from what is happening in Poland right now.
      - fsslrisrchr 5y ago
        I didn't say I want Italy to be an economic island. Isolationism has been against Italian economic interests since, at least, the renaissance. Probably since Magna Graecia. Italy doesn't need a Lisbon Treaty bound EU to trade with its neighbors. Italy didn't need it in the 1400s, and it didn't need it in the 60s. In neither periods was Italy under the Lisbon Treaty.
- eynsham 5y ago
  Every day I quake in my boots at the thought of the hideous revenge r/France will inflict upon us.
  - bayesian_horse 5y ago
    Like Boris Johnson said "Prennez un grip and donnez mois un break." Not nice, and I dislike the guy but I found the quote somewhat funny.
- Scarblac 5y ago
  Yes, but there's no need for any punishment on top of what Brexit is.
  - bayesian_horse 5y ago
    I don't see any clear case of such punishment. There are consequences for not being in the trade union. You can't leave the trade union and expect the same conditions as the members...
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    And there is no "punishment" beyond Brexit itself: All the "punishment" is just Britain getting exactly what it asked for. The laughing and snide comments are just A) Schadenfreude at being so stupid as to ask for that "punishment", and B) intense annoyance growing into anger at the fuckwittery of whining about "punishment" for getting what one asked for. As such, it's all utterly well-deserved IMO.

brightball 5y ago

Just an observation. Ever since the announcement it seems like various groups on Reddit and elsewhere want to celebrate every difficulty that the UK experiences.

bayesian_horse 5y ago
Yes, there was razor-thin margin for the Leave campaign, with massive lies being told, partially financed by Russia, and the younger generation generally opposed. It makes travelling in the EU harder, let alone it risks upsetting the Ireland situation. You can expect an international audience to disapprove.
- timellis-smith 5y ago
  That's quite a claim. Do you have some strong evidence to back it up? The electoral commission went to great lengths and expense to find any wrong doing and came up with nothing. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/04/electoral-commissions-436000-bill-fighting-brexit-campaigner/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20... Edit: Rant alert: It really irks me that the people who call the Brexit election unfair, don't seem to acknowledge that Britain was never given any kind of referendum when joining the EU "Although the United Kingdom ratified the treaty in Parliament, this was not without some opposition. Broadly the governing Labour party supported the treaty, while the opposition Conservatives did not. The Liberal Democrats supported the treaty, while calling for a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU as a whole.[119] Several 'Eurosceptic' MPs called for a referendum on the ratification of the treaty. Daniel Hannan pointed out that the Prime Minister, Tony Blair had twice promised a referendum on the matter, to which Blair replied that he had promised a referendum on the European Constitution rather than the Lisbon Treaty, which unlike the former was not a constitutional treaty.[120] In early October 2007, the Commons' European Scrutiny Committee had found that the treaty was "substantially equivalent" to the rejected constitution.[121]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratification_of_the_Treaty_of_Lisbon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratification_of_the_Treaty_of_...
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    https://brexitlies.com/ https://brexitlies.com/ There's a handy dropdown that lets you pick the lie you want to explore. EDIT: I replied to the wrong comment accidentally due to the delayed rendering from an HN helper extension I use, my apologies. I can't delete the comment once someone has replied to it.
    - timellis-smith 5y ago
      That's all good and well, but I don't think it answered my question about a source for accusations of Russian involvement, nor did it address my question about the lack of democratic process when joining the EU, so I'm not entirely sure why you posted this.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - bayesian_horse 5y ago
        Wikipedia says the investigation is ongoing an there seems to be some evidence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_Brexit_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20... Given what we know about Russian interference in other elections, it would be strange if Putin said "Nah, let's sit this one out..."
  - d1sxeyes 5y ago
    Your source is behind a paywall, and I'm not interested in paying the Telegraph, but it seems there's a factual inaccuracy in your statement - the electoral commission did not 'come up with nothing'. They imposed a fine, referred Vote Leave to the police, and Vote Leave dropped their appeal. https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/media-centre/vote-leave-fined-and-referred-police-breaking-electoral-law https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/media-centre/vote-lea... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/29/vote-leave-drops-appeal-against-fine-for-electoral-offences https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/29/vote-leave-...
eCa 5y ago
I don’t think it’s reasonable to equate reddit with other EU member states. As an EU citizen I’m sorry that UK left. And I do hope that things will not get much worse in the UK, though I fear they might. I do think that brexit is the biggest self-inflicted harm a country has voluntarily done to itself in a really long time.
- hermitcrab 5y ago
  >I do think that brexit is the biggest self-inflicted harm a country has voluntarily done to itself in a really long time. As someone who lives in the UK, I agree.
  - bayesian_horse 5y ago
    POTUS Donald J. Trump is a tough competition, though.
ben_w 5y ago
Reddit groups aren’t EU members. And Schadenfreude isn’t punishment.
nicoburns 5y ago
I think it's UK remainers pointing out the difficulties. Which is somewhat understandable considering: - Their political opponents have spent months dismissing their concerns as scaremongering. - Many would still like us to rejoin the EU at some point. So it makes sense to point out the advantages of doing so.
- bayesian_horse 5y ago
  The UK will rejoin at some point, especially because the younger generation will demand it, but it will have to take a decade, more likely two, unless Brexit proves to be an uncontroversial disaster and GB falls behind extremely. I wouldn't wish that on anybody. There is just too much national pride around this move, and the British political system is so thoroughly messed up that it will take one or two leadership generations for them to come to their senses. They can hardly manage the exit, the Reintegration would be even harder.
  - JetSetWilly 5y ago
    > The UK will rejoin at some point, especially because the younger generation will demand it, but it will have to take a decade, more likely two, unless Brexit proves to be an uncontroversial disaster and GB falls behind extremely. I wouldn't wish that on anybody. It seems unlikely. I would say it is more likely that being outside the EU leads to more euroscepticism among the young. Perceiving the sharp end of EU incompetence - triggering article 16 without even informing Ireland - or malice, such as seizing vaccines and the whole propagandistic negative portrayal of the UK during the vaccine rollout in the EU - has already led many a former remainer to think that the EU is not the most fantastic of institutions. It is certainly true that there are many in the EU keen to paint every minor event as some sort of disaster for the UK. They will gladly ignore the wider context of the pandemic, of driver shortages in the EU as well, of this being a purely manufactured demand-side panic buy "shortage" - to gleefully jump up and down shouting about the UK being self harming and it is all 100% brexit. It really comes across as deceitful propaganda I am afraid - and people take note and the EU loses its shine bit by bit.
    - 5y ago
Isinlor 5y ago
As a Polish citizen I want to see post-Brexit UK struggle, so that my government doesn't get any stupid ideas of leaving EU.
- fsslrisrchr 5y ago
  As an Italian citizen, I hope for Poland to leave so my country's net transfers less money to the eastern countries and will, hopefully, encourage Italy to grow a pair and leave
  - bayesian_horse 5y ago
    Italy's economy is almost an integral part of the EU, so Italy leaving would probably end the EU as a whole. Italy's economy would hardly survive both being cut off from the trade union and its major trade partners taking a plunge. And the point of "net transfers" is to build up markets in less developed parts of Europe. No European country benefits from what is happening in Poland right now.
    - fsslrisrchr 5y ago
      I didn't say I want Italy to be an economic island. Isolationism has been against Italian economic interests since, at least, the renaissance. Probably since Magna Graecia. Italy doesn't need a Lisbon Treaty bound EU to trade with its neighbors. Italy didn't need it in the 1400s, and it didn't need it in the 60s. In neither periods was Italy under the Lisbon Treaty.
eynsham 5y ago
Every day I quake in my boots at the thought of the hideous revenge r/France will inflict upon us.
- bayesian_horse 5y ago
  Like Boris Johnson said "Prennez un grip and donnez mois un break." Not nice, and I dislike the guy but I found the quote somewhat funny.
Scarblac 5y ago
Yes, but there's no need for any punishment on top of what Brexit is.
- bayesian_horse 5y ago
  I don't see any clear case of such punishment. There are consequences for not being in the trade union. You can't leave the trade union and expect the same conditions as the members...
- CRConrad 5y ago
  And there is no "punishment" beyond Brexit itself: All the "punishment" is just Britain getting exactly what it asked for. The laughing and snide comments are just A) Schadenfreude at being so stupid as to ask for that "punishment", and B) intense annoyance growing into anger at the fuckwittery of whining about "punishment" for getting what one asked for. As such, it's all utterly well-deserved IMO.