6 ms·

You definitely get the impression that the other EU members intend to punish the UK for leaving.

Swizec 5y ago
Or just treat them as they do any other non-EU country? The special deals and preferential treatment come with being in the EU. When you leave, they stop. Fair’s fair.
- timellis-smith 5y ago
  Not sure. "A fifth of all EU border checks are now happening in Northern Ireland, the government has said." https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/unsustainable-level-of-eu-checks-happening-in-ni-40404848.html https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/unsustainable... There is a distinct possibility that the EU is being vindictive
  - dhosek 5y ago
    Or there is the distinct possibility that this was a heavily-traversed border pre-Brexit and with Brexit it now requires a lot of border checks.
    - timellis-smith 5y ago
      I'm not going to argue whether the actual statement is true or not: Many people don't trust the government at the best of times but if it is true, I seriously doubt whether it constitutes 1/5 of all EU trade (assuming that border checks are in proportion to trade).
      - Swizec 5y ago
        Or people who live just across the border where there previously was none continue to commute to work daily, now across a border. With time countries usually end up passing treaties to make these regular passings easier. When you are a country newly enforcing the Schengen border it’s a high faff affair and closely scrutinized. I remember when Slovenia first got the border it caused huge problems and long delays.
        rjsw 5y ago
        > Or people who live just across the border where there previously was none continue to commute to work daily, now across a border. The checks are at the ports in NI, the whole point of the agreement between the EU and UK was to avoid any checks at the land border between NI and the Irish Republic.
rich_sasha 5y ago
Brexit did come with a healthy dose of "F-u" to the rest of the EU. Hard to keep back the smile I suppose.
bayesian_horse 5y ago
What would they need to do to convince you they don't intend to punish the UK? Would they try to force migrant workers to work in the UK, even against applicable UK law? Other EU politicians have been quite diplomatic and friendly during the whole thing. A lot unlike a certain Prime Minister from a former EU member I could name.
- brightball 5y ago
  Just an observation. Ever since the announcement it seems like various groups on Reddit and elsewhere want to celebrate every difficulty that the UK experiences.
  - bayesian_horse 5y ago
    Yes, there was razor-thin margin for the Leave campaign, with massive lies being told, partially financed by Russia, and the younger generation generally opposed. It makes travelling in the EU harder, let alone it risks upsetting the Ireland situation. You can expect an international audience to disapprove.
    - timellis-smith 5y ago
      That's quite a claim. Do you have some strong evidence to back it up? The electoral commission went to great lengths and expense to find any wrong doing and came up with nothing. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/04/electoral-commissions-436000-bill-fighting-brexit-campaigner/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20... Edit: Rant alert: It really irks me that the people who call the Brexit election unfair, don't seem to acknowledge that Britain was never given any kind of referendum when joining the EU "Although the United Kingdom ratified the treaty in Parliament, this was not without some opposition. Broadly the governing Labour party supported the treaty, while the opposition Conservatives did not. The Liberal Democrats supported the treaty, while calling for a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU as a whole.[119] Several 'Eurosceptic' MPs called for a referendum on the ratification of the treaty. Daniel Hannan pointed out that the Prime Minister, Tony Blair had twice promised a referendum on the matter, to which Blair replied that he had promised a referendum on the European Constitution rather than the Lisbon Treaty, which unlike the former was not a constitutional treaty.[120] In early October 2007, the Commons' European Scrutiny Committee had found that the treaty was "substantially equivalent" to the rejected constitution.[121]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratification_of_the_Treaty_of_Lisbon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratification_of_the_Treaty_of_...
NovemberWhiskey 5y ago
When you cut off your foot with an axe, the bystanders are not punishing you when they observe that you're having trouble putting on your pants afterwards.
shapefrog 5y ago
I guess your ex wife not giving you a blowjob after your divorce would probably give you the impression she was 'punishing you for leaving'.
s_dev 5y ago
You also get the impression the UK wanted to have its cake and eat it too. Some of the Brexit political promises are pure delusion. I think a few over zealous Brexiteers might be conflating not getting rewarded with punishment.
- rusk 5y ago
  EU membership conferred privileges which were seen as entitlements, so when inevitably withdrawn it seems like punishment. It has to be said though, that the EU did go to great lengths to try to find some kind of common ground that would leave much of the entitlements in place (as a matter of self-interest of course, as these amounted to business for various EU states) - to which the HMG responded with V-signs and blowing loud Benny-Hill raspberries. To trade across international borders you have to have agreements, and you can't have an agreement with somebody who openly flouts the rules at every given opportunity. I wouldn't be relying on your neighbours' nativist agendas to drive some sort of "free trade" angle either cause nativism typically favours tariffs.
BitwiseFool 5y ago
I definitely sense a smug air of "this is all your fault and you deserve every ounce of pain for leaving. Let that be a lesson to you!"
- toofy 5y ago
  Considering how smug the pro-leave people were and how they were repeatedly and loudly insulting towards those who wanted to remain, surely we’re not surprised. Particularly when people were screaming at the tops of their lungs, “There’s a lot of absolutely fundamental societal wide issues that should be considered…” There is nothing shocking here.
- evgen 5y ago
  'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.
  - BitwiseFool 5y ago
    >" 'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party." Yep! This is exactly the kind of sentiment I was talking about.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      > Yep! This is exactly the kind of sentiment I was talking about. No, you were talking about "smug" EU remainers / still-in-the-EU citizens, weren't you? The people who "voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party" are the Brexiteers.
    - jen20 5y ago
      And in what conceivable way is it not justified? "Project Fear" was always "Project Reality". It's just that reality is now biting for the people who voted for the leopards to eat their faces.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  Yeah, so? It is all their fault and they deserve every ounce of pain for leaving. Nobody to blame but themselves, the nitwits.
snarf21 5y ago
Not helping them solve their problems is different than actively punishing them.
- rusk 5y ago
  But they did try to help! They spent years trying to negotiate some kind of trade deal, as many European economies stood to lose out ... but it's clear that the unilateral no deal approach was the plan from the outset.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Or just treat them as they do any other non-EU country? The special deals and preferential treatment come with being in the EU. When you leave, they stop. Fair’s fair.

timellis-smith 5y ago
Not sure. "A fifth of all EU border checks are now happening in Northern Ireland, the government has said." https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/unsustainable-level-of-eu-checks-happening-in-ni-40404848.html https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/unsustainable... There is a distinct possibility that the EU is being vindictive
- dhosek 5y ago
  Or there is the distinct possibility that this was a heavily-traversed border pre-Brexit and with Brexit it now requires a lot of border checks.
  - timellis-smith 5y ago
    I'm not going to argue whether the actual statement is true or not: Many people don't trust the government at the best of times but if it is true, I seriously doubt whether it constitutes 1/5 of all EU trade (assuming that border checks are in proportion to trade).
    - Swizec 5y ago
      Or people who live just across the border where there previously was none continue to commute to work daily, now across a border. With time countries usually end up passing treaties to make these regular passings easier. When you are a country newly enforcing the Schengen border it’s a high faff affair and closely scrutinized. I remember when Slovenia first got the border it caused huge problems and long delays.
      - rjsw 5y ago
        > Or people who live just across the border where there previously was none continue to commute to work daily, now across a border. The checks are at the ports in NI, the whole point of the agreement between the EU and UK was to avoid any checks at the land border between NI and the Irish Republic.

rich_sasha 5y ago

Brexit did come with a healthy dose of "F-u" to the rest of the EU. Hard to keep back the smile I suppose.

bayesian_horse 5y ago

What would they need to do to convince you they don't intend to punish the UK? Would they try to force migrant workers to work in the UK, even against applicable UK law? Other EU politicians have been quite diplomatic and friendly during the whole thing. A lot unlike a certain Prime Minister from a former EU member I could name.

brightball 5y ago
Just an observation. Ever since the announcement it seems like various groups on Reddit and elsewhere want to celebrate every difficulty that the UK experiences.
- bayesian_horse 5y ago
  Yes, there was razor-thin margin for the Leave campaign, with massive lies being told, partially financed by Russia, and the younger generation generally opposed. It makes travelling in the EU harder, let alone it risks upsetting the Ireland situation. You can expect an international audience to disapprove.
  - timellis-smith 5y ago
    That's quite a claim. Do you have some strong evidence to back it up? The electoral commission went to great lengths and expense to find any wrong doing and came up with nothing. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/04/electoral-commissions-436000-bill-fighting-brexit-campaigner/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20... Edit: Rant alert: It really irks me that the people who call the Brexit election unfair, don't seem to acknowledge that Britain was never given any kind of referendum when joining the EU "Although the United Kingdom ratified the treaty in Parliament, this was not without some opposition. Broadly the governing Labour party supported the treaty, while the opposition Conservatives did not. The Liberal Democrats supported the treaty, while calling for a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU as a whole.[119] Several 'Eurosceptic' MPs called for a referendum on the ratification of the treaty. Daniel Hannan pointed out that the Prime Minister, Tony Blair had twice promised a referendum on the matter, to which Blair replied that he had promised a referendum on the European Constitution rather than the Lisbon Treaty, which unlike the former was not a constitutional treaty.[120] In early October 2007, the Commons' European Scrutiny Committee had found that the treaty was "substantially equivalent" to the rejected constitution.[121]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratification_of_the_Treaty_of_Lisbon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratification_of_the_Treaty_of_...

NovemberWhiskey 5y ago

When you cut off your foot with an axe, the bystanders are not punishing you when they observe that you're having trouble putting on your pants afterwards.

shapefrog 5y ago

I guess your ex wife not giving you a blowjob after your divorce would probably give you the impression she was 'punishing you for leaving'.

s_dev 5y ago

You also get the impression the UK wanted to have its cake and eat it too. Some of the Brexit political promises are pure delusion. I think a few over zealous Brexiteers might be conflating not getting rewarded with punishment.

rusk 5y ago
EU membership conferred privileges which were seen as entitlements, so when inevitably withdrawn it seems like punishment. It has to be said though, that the EU did go to great lengths to try to find some kind of common ground that would leave much of the entitlements in place (as a matter of self-interest of course, as these amounted to business for various EU states) - to which the HMG responded with V-signs and blowing loud Benny-Hill raspberries. To trade across international borders you have to have agreements, and you can't have an agreement with somebody who openly flouts the rules at every given opportunity. I wouldn't be relying on your neighbours' nativist agendas to drive some sort of "free trade" angle either cause nativism typically favours tariffs.

BitwiseFool 5y ago

I definitely sense a smug air of "this is all your fault and you deserve every ounce of pain for leaving. Let that be a lesson to you!"

toofy 5y ago
Considering how smug the pro-leave people were and how they were repeatedly and loudly insulting towards those who wanted to remain, surely we’re not surprised. Particularly when people were screaming at the tops of their lungs, “There’s a lot of absolutely fundamental societal wide issues that should be considered…” There is nothing shocking here.
evgen 5y ago
'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.
- BitwiseFool 5y ago
  >" 'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party." Yep! This is exactly the kind of sentiment I was talking about.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    > Yep! This is exactly the kind of sentiment I was talking about. No, you were talking about "smug" EU remainers / still-in-the-EU citizens, weren't you? The people who "voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party" are the Brexiteers.
  - jen20 5y ago
    And in what conceivable way is it not justified? "Project Fear" was always "Project Reality". It's just that reality is now biting for the people who voted for the leopards to eat their faces.
CRConrad 5y ago
Yeah, so? It is all their fault and they deserve every ounce of pain for leaving. Nobody to blame but themselves, the nitwits.

snarf21 5y ago

Not helping them solve their problems is different than actively punishing them.

rusk 5y ago
But they did try to help! They spent years trying to negotiate some kind of trade deal, as many European economies stood to lose out ... but it's clear that the unilateral no deal approach was the plan from the outset.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]