5 ms·

TBH I still think Brexit is a good choice for Britain. The EU is a terribly inefficient and hopeless organization (but perhaps I am a bit biased, I've always be

by sgt 5y ago

TBH I still think Brexit is a good choice for Britain. The EU is a terribly inefficient and hopeless organization (but perhaps I am a bit biased, I've always been opposed to the EU because it's far too heavy weight). Of course, they will suffer economically for a while, but that was part of the game with Brexit. The voters however - were slightly lied to regarding the immediate downsides. It's probably important to keep the big picture in mind.

rich_sasha 5y ago
> The EU is a terribly inefficient and hopeless organization Compared to what? Efficiency always scaled poorly with size. For what it's worth, bureaucracies of US Federal government, not to mention those of China, India, Russia etc. are far worse, it seems. It's not about the EU's throughput of things, but things it enables. Things like efficient allocation of resources via a single economic area, for example.
ethnt 5y ago
It absolutely was not the right choice for the UK (not just Britain, don't forget about Northern Ireland). The EU has definitely shown itself to be quick when it needs to be, and in general has improved life for the average person. There are nothing but downsides in the immediate and long-term future for the UK without the EU — these economic consequences are not easily solvable, and the Tories have not shown themselves capable of actually solving these problems. The UK had a very privileged place in the EU before, and was able to punch above their weight. When they inevitably rejoin they certainly won't be able to hold that special status again.
joeberon 5y ago
As a Brit, I think "slightly lied to" is a huge under-exaggeration. Literally everyone I spoke to who voted for Brexit did so entirely on the lies, for example the NHS money thing, specific claims about removing "foreigners", and promises of rebuilding of British-only enterprises.
- davzie 5y ago
  I'm sorry but you can't know that. The vast majority of people had probably made their decision before the messaging kicked in. Also you can claim the same the other way. The only reason people voted to remain is because of the scare of no drinking water, no medicines, fear of an instant market crash etc. Both sides can and were manipulated to some extent by false messaging that never came to be, but certainly not everyone voted the way they did as a result of that messaging.
  - tokamak-teapot 5y ago
    You’re replying to someone stating what others have told them, not making an assertion based on something they ‘know’. Did you reply to the wrong comment perhaps?
- callamdelaney 5y ago
  I seriously doubt this claim 'Literally everyone I spoke to who voted for Brexit did so entirely on the lies' - that seems to be a coping mechanism for anybody on the opposite side of a debate. If I had voted remain you could say I had done so on lies if my motivation was to prevent house prices dropping by 18% [1] - where as actually they have moved about 18% higher [2]. There were no specific claims about removing foreigners, only the factually accurate statement that we could move to a points based immigration system if we wanted to. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referendum-george-osborne-house-prices-brexit https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referend... [2] https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/housing-index https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/housing-index
  - joeberon 5y ago
    I'm sorry that the reality I experience does not line up neatly with the one you want to believe
    - callamdelaney 5y ago
      'Literally everyone'? Not me, Joe - so now your previous comment is incorrect.
deleted 5y ago
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by sgt 5y ago

rich_sasha 5y ago

> The EU is a terribly inefficient and hopeless organization Compared to what? Efficiency always scaled poorly with size. For what it's worth, bureaucracies of US Federal government, not to mention those of China, India, Russia etc. are far worse, it seems. It's not about the EU's throughput of things, but things it enables. Things like efficient allocation of resources via a single economic area, for example.

ethnt 5y ago

It absolutely was not the right choice for the UK (not just Britain, don't forget about Northern Ireland). The EU has definitely shown itself to be quick when it needs to be, and in general has improved life for the average person. There are nothing but downsides in the immediate and long-term future for the UK without the EU — these economic consequences are not easily solvable, and the Tories have not shown themselves capable of actually solving these problems. The UK had a very privileged place in the EU before, and was able to punch above their weight. When they inevitably rejoin they certainly won't be able to hold that special status again.

joeberon 5y ago

As a Brit, I think "slightly lied to" is a huge under-exaggeration. Literally everyone I spoke to who voted for Brexit did so entirely on the lies, for example the NHS money thing, specific claims about removing "foreigners", and promises of rebuilding of British-only enterprises.

davzie 5y ago
I'm sorry but you can't know that. The vast majority of people had probably made their decision before the messaging kicked in. Also you can claim the same the other way. The only reason people voted to remain is because of the scare of no drinking water, no medicines, fear of an instant market crash etc. Both sides can and were manipulated to some extent by false messaging that never came to be, but certainly not everyone voted the way they did as a result of that messaging.
- tokamak-teapot 5y ago
  You’re replying to someone stating what others have told them, not making an assertion based on something they ‘know’. Did you reply to the wrong comment perhaps?
callamdelaney 5y ago
I seriously doubt this claim 'Literally everyone I spoke to who voted for Brexit did so entirely on the lies' - that seems to be a coping mechanism for anybody on the opposite side of a debate. If I had voted remain you could say I had done so on lies if my motivation was to prevent house prices dropping by 18% [1] - where as actually they have moved about 18% higher [2]. There were no specific claims about removing foreigners, only the factually accurate statement that we could move to a points based immigration system if we wanted to. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referendum-george-osborne-house-prices-brexit https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/20/eu-referend... [2] https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/housing-index https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/housing-index
- joeberon 5y ago
  I'm sorry that the reality I experience does not line up neatly with the one you want to believe
  - callamdelaney 5y ago
    'Literally everyone'? Not me, Joe - so now your previous comment is incorrect.

deleted 5y ago

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