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China just announced at the UN General Assembly that they will no longer be selling / setting up coal power plants to 3rd world countries. They are moving this

by ep103 5y ago

China just announced at the UN General Assembly that they will no longer be selling / setting up coal power plants to 3rd world countries. They are moving this way : )

throwawaylinux 5y ago
Maybe they want that cheap fuel for their own expanding domestic usage.
- neltnerb 5y ago
  Honestly, that's a great outcome. At least if the coal plants are physically in China then China can, basically at its leisure, replace them with the solar panels that they themselves make. I definitely picture China as 100% nuclear, hydro, and solar/wind kind of 10-20 years from whenever they decide it's time. They have the manufacturing capacity and knowledgebase to do it, and seem to have the will to follow through. tldr; I for one would prefer coal plants under Chinese jurisdiction than coal plants funded by the Chinese in other countries where they have less ability and pressure to replace them.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    If the reason is to reduce competitive demand for cheap fuel by preventing poorer countries to have access to the most cost effective coal technology, so that China can have cheaper energy [which is just my conjecture], I don't think it is a great outcome at all. China has a horrible environmental track record, they cause more carbon pollution than the developing world combined, and despite being a rich country they are still massively increasing their carbon outputs. The fact they are a communist dictatorship doesn't inspire any confidence that they might one day suddenly start to value the environment any more than they do now. They will move away from coal as soon as it become economically advantageous to do so and no sooner, which is not all that different to how poorer countries will deal with their coal generation.
    - neltnerb 5y ago
      > They will move away from coal as soon as it become economically advantageous to do so and no sooner, which is not all that different to how poorer countries will deal with their coal generation. The incentives are aligned, the solar panels are made in China, by Chinese companies, and as it turns out another domestic industry (construction) is collapsing so they need a new, major domestic economic boost. I predict it will be renewable power, it's both in their interest and boosts their international profile. I don't agree that China has that bad a track record, they seem to be very willing to take dramatic actions if they feel it is in their self interest (recently, bitcoin for instance). I think it is in their self-interest to phase out coal for domestically manufactured solar since it will juice their economy, give their entire economy a generational advantage over legacy systems, and help protect their domestic food production.
      - throwawaylinux 5y ago
        Same as the incentives for other countries to move to solar when it becomes cheaper. We're talking about buying coal power station technology (and likely construction and quite possibly operation) from China, or buying solar generation from them. > I don't agree that China has that bad a track record, they seem to be very willing to take dramatic actions if they feel it is in their self interest (recently, bitcoin for instance). Oh they definitely have a horrible track record on carbon pollution (as well as a lot of other things like ocean plastic pollution, over fishing, endangered animal trade, illegal CFC emissions, and all sorts of horrible things. They are by far the biggest carbon polluter on the planet, larger than the entire western world combined, and yet they still plan to vastly increase carbon pollution and demand concessions in international carbon agreements. They're horrible.
        neltnerb 5y ago
        Surely better than debt financed coal plants in other countries... right? At least China definitely has the domestic manufacturing base required to replace with solar or nuclear. And I do think the incentive is stronger for them from an economic standpoint. Consider the extreme case where they build enough coal plants to entirely power their electrical grid at the capacity they want. Now they get a chance to install new solar facilities, manufacture those solar panels, deconstruct the coal plants, and on top of it get kudos internationally for shutting down coal? I think it's a lot more incentive than just the cost of installation, it's totally different since they make the panels too. Same way that coal mining companies want there to be more coal plants in the US... China is the country with all the sun mining companies, and seems intent on keeping it that way.
baron_harkonnen 5y ago
As resources start collapsing, more and more major world powers will begin to keep their own resources for themselves. China didn't say they were targeting a net reduction in building coal, only that they weren't going to be building coal for anyone else. This is likely due to the projected increase in demand for coal in China and a realistic assessment about how resource constrained they are. And to be clear, while collapse of fossil fuels, something people have been concerned about for decades, will be better for the planet, it will still mean a rapid decline in our standard of living and essentially the collapse of modern industrial society.
- WorldMaker 5y ago
  Renewables are rapidly winning versus the cost/benefit of fossil fuels. China also announced a partnership with Australia that would replace existing coal trade agreements between China and Australia with a massive solar farm in the Australian desert and planning for the worlds largest planned high voltage DC corridor between continents. ETA Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93ASEAN_Power_Link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93ASEAN_Power_...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

by ep103 5y ago

China just announced at the UN General Assembly that they will no longer be selling / setting up coal power plants to 3rd world countries. They are moving this way : )

throwawaylinux 5y ago

Maybe they want that cheap fuel for their own expanding domestic usage.

neltnerb 5y ago
Honestly, that's a great outcome. At least if the coal plants are physically in China then China can, basically at its leisure, replace them with the solar panels that they themselves make. I definitely picture China as 100% nuclear, hydro, and solar/wind kind of 10-20 years from whenever they decide it's time. They have the manufacturing capacity and knowledgebase to do it, and seem to have the will to follow through. tldr; I for one would prefer coal plants under Chinese jurisdiction than coal plants funded by the Chinese in other countries where they have less ability and pressure to replace them.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  If the reason is to reduce competitive demand for cheap fuel by preventing poorer countries to have access to the most cost effective coal technology, so that China can have cheaper energy [which is just my conjecture], I don't think it is a great outcome at all. China has a horrible environmental track record, they cause more carbon pollution than the developing world combined, and despite being a rich country they are still massively increasing their carbon outputs. The fact they are a communist dictatorship doesn't inspire any confidence that they might one day suddenly start to value the environment any more than they do now. They will move away from coal as soon as it become economically advantageous to do so and no sooner, which is not all that different to how poorer countries will deal with their coal generation.
  - neltnerb 5y ago
    > They will move away from coal as soon as it become economically advantageous to do so and no sooner, which is not all that different to how poorer countries will deal with their coal generation. The incentives are aligned, the solar panels are made in China, by Chinese companies, and as it turns out another domestic industry (construction) is collapsing so they need a new, major domestic economic boost. I predict it will be renewable power, it's both in their interest and boosts their international profile. I don't agree that China has that bad a track record, they seem to be very willing to take dramatic actions if they feel it is in their self interest (recently, bitcoin for instance). I think it is in their self-interest to phase out coal for domestically manufactured solar since it will juice their economy, give their entire economy a generational advantage over legacy systems, and help protect their domestic food production.
    - throwawaylinux 5y ago
      Same as the incentives for other countries to move to solar when it becomes cheaper. We're talking about buying coal power station technology (and likely construction and quite possibly operation) from China, or buying solar generation from them. > I don't agree that China has that bad a track record, they seem to be very willing to take dramatic actions if they feel it is in their self interest (recently, bitcoin for instance). Oh they definitely have a horrible track record on carbon pollution (as well as a lot of other things like ocean plastic pollution, over fishing, endangered animal trade, illegal CFC emissions, and all sorts of horrible things. They are by far the biggest carbon polluter on the planet, larger than the entire western world combined, and yet they still plan to vastly increase carbon pollution and demand concessions in international carbon agreements. They're horrible.
      - neltnerb 5y ago
        Surely better than debt financed coal plants in other countries... right? At least China definitely has the domestic manufacturing base required to replace with solar or nuclear. And I do think the incentive is stronger for them from an economic standpoint. Consider the extreme case where they build enough coal plants to entirely power their electrical grid at the capacity they want. Now they get a chance to install new solar facilities, manufacture those solar panels, deconstruct the coal plants, and on top of it get kudos internationally for shutting down coal? I think it's a lot more incentive than just the cost of installation, it's totally different since they make the panels too. Same way that coal mining companies want there to be more coal plants in the US... China is the country with all the sun mining companies, and seems intent on keeping it that way.

baron_harkonnen 5y ago

As resources start collapsing, more and more major world powers will begin to keep their own resources for themselves. China didn't say they were targeting a net reduction in building coal, only that they weren't going to be building coal for anyone else. This is likely due to the projected increase in demand for coal in China and a realistic assessment about how resource constrained they are. And to be clear, while collapse of fossil fuels, something people have been concerned about for decades, will be better for the planet, it will still mean a rapid decline in our standard of living and essentially the collapse of modern industrial society.

WorldMaker 5y ago
Renewables are rapidly winning versus the cost/benefit of fossil fuels. China also announced a partnership with Australia that would replace existing coal trade agreements between China and Australia with a massive solar farm in the Australian desert and planning for the worlds largest planned high voltage DC corridor between continents. ETA Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93ASEAN_Power_Link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93ASEAN_Power_...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]