5 ms·

Is this a byproduct of China punishing Australia for asking for an investigation of the Covid-19 origin?

dustintrex 5y ago
Yes, at least in part: https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3147774/china-australia-relations-demand-coal-surges-how-long-can https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3147774/c...
randomopining 5y ago
Good to see the CCP having their silly past decisions come to haunt them.
- Jeff_Brown 5y ago
  If only we could expect the haunting to motivate change. The pressures that move CCP members are incredibly opaque.
est 5y ago
Are your refering to Australia coal? The imported coal accounts a small percentage of all coal China burnt for power generation.
- Sevaris 5y ago
  They needed 3 billion tonnes, of which 2.7 billion was produced locally. 300m was imported, 30m of which was from Australia. Per the article, their coal needs are going to increase by 10% year-by-year. They're investing in other mines and expanding production, but that's going to take 2-3 years. In the meantime, they're facing an acute shortage, partly due to banning Australian coal.
  - baybal2 5y ago
    The prime suspect is actually the grid, and generation capacity itself. It's a recurring phenomenon every few years. China doesn't have district heating in Shanghai, and further south, despite climate at around Shanghai latitudes being quit cold. This leads to everybody using electric heaters. It's like the Texas electricity crisis in USA, except it happens every relatively cold winter in China.
    - echelon 5y ago
      I just looked it up because I was curious. Shanghai average temps seldom reach below freezing [1]. The average January low is 36 degF. Is it really that big of a problem, then? If so, couldn't the government regulate use of electric heating? It's not like water pipes bursting is a huge risk. [1] https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/china/shanghai https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/china/shanghai
      - thehappypm 5y ago
        That's pretty warm! That's similar weather to Atlanta, I would have imagined it's much colder in Shanghai. Average January low in New York City is 26F.
        eunos 5y ago
        Unfortunately it seems Asian, which I am also have lower tolerance for cold. I and my family could barely endure below 15 degree Celsius.
        thehappypm 5y ago
        Asia has some of the coldest inhabited parts of the world !
    - rsync 5y ago
      Responding to your child, echelon, because replies ran out ... Shanghai is one of those edge climates where it's not quite cold enough to do something about the cold, but just cold enough to be uncomfortable and deploy a band-aid fix. So they don't make real investments in climate control and everyone is cold and/or wears sweaters in the office and/or deploys electric heaters ...
anonymousiam 5y ago
Or perhaps a byproduct of the increase in the price of oil.
- anonymousiam 5y ago
  https://www.npr.org/2021/10/01/1042209223/why-covid-is-affecting-chinas-power-rations https://www.npr.org/2021/10/01/1042209223/why-covid-is-affec...
ct0 5y ago
Seriously? China is pretty petty.
- duxup 5y ago
  I think generally speaking humans are petty and nation to nation 'punishments' and reactions generally look petty just by default ... short of war. Good or bad choice I'll leave that to everyone else to decide (wouldn't cost China much to just do ... nothing) but I think it's human nature to some extent.
- HPsquared 5y ago
  Sometimes it can be advantageous to appear petty and unstable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_theory
chenzhekl 5y ago
As far as I can see, the answer is negative. The shortage of electricity this time is believed to result from two factors. On the one hand, the price of coal has increased a lot recently, but the electricity price is only allowed to float by at most 10%. Power generation is now a money-losing business. As a result, there is no motivation for power plants to produce more electricity. On the other hand, the goverment wants to achieve carbon neutrality by 2060, so local goverments at all levels are assigned some KPIs. Because of the return of manufacturing caused by COVID-19 in the first half of the year, many places used up their entire year's worth of emission credits early, so they had to forcibly cut off production.
- srcmap 5y ago
  Wonder if this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58026038 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58026038 (China nuclear: Taishan reactor shut down over damaged fuel rods) is also a factor......
  - fomine3 5y ago
    Impact of lack of single reactor is negligible for whole grid.
    - RugnirViking 5y ago
      Depends on the grid - some countries get almost 10% of their power from single reactors. Of course, bigger countries have this less
beaunative 5y ago
This is quite a stretch. People commenting "in part", of course in part it is, but is also being ango-centric and ignoring real reasons, banning Australia' import is quite an superficial and insiginicant contributor. The global coal price has been on the rise, that's irrespective if China has the ban or not. Even it does, it's still a quite small percentage in terms of total energy supply. I'd rather not argue on this. Find some significant or likely significant reasons, otherwise we are just focusing on logically indefensible but insignificant aspects of things (80% sure there is a term for it)
didntknowya 5y ago
lol they have better ways of flexing without shooting themselves in the foot. not everything they do is based on foreign policy.

Yes, at least in part: https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3147774/china-australia-relations-demand-coal-surges-how-long-can https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3147774/c...

randomopining 5y ago

Good to see the CCP having their silly past decisions come to haunt them.

Jeff_Brown 5y ago
If only we could expect the haunting to motivate change. The pressures that move CCP members are incredibly opaque.

est 5y ago

Are your refering to Australia coal? The imported coal accounts a small percentage of all coal China burnt for power generation.

Sevaris 5y ago
They needed 3 billion tonnes, of which 2.7 billion was produced locally. 300m was imported, 30m of which was from Australia. Per the article, their coal needs are going to increase by 10% year-by-year. They're investing in other mines and expanding production, but that's going to take 2-3 years. In the meantime, they're facing an acute shortage, partly due to banning Australian coal.
- baybal2 5y ago
  The prime suspect is actually the grid, and generation capacity itself. It's a recurring phenomenon every few years. China doesn't have district heating in Shanghai, and further south, despite climate at around Shanghai latitudes being quit cold. This leads to everybody using electric heaters. It's like the Texas electricity crisis in USA, except it happens every relatively cold winter in China.
  - echelon 5y ago
    I just looked it up because I was curious. Shanghai average temps seldom reach below freezing [1]. The average January low is 36 degF. Is it really that big of a problem, then? If so, couldn't the government regulate use of electric heating? It's not like water pipes bursting is a huge risk. [1] https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/china/shanghai https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/china/shanghai
    - thehappypm 5y ago
      That's pretty warm! That's similar weather to Atlanta, I would have imagined it's much colder in Shanghai. Average January low in New York City is 26F.
      - eunos 5y ago
        Unfortunately it seems Asian, which I am also have lower tolerance for cold. I and my family could barely endure below 15 degree Celsius.
        thehappypm 5y ago
        Asia has some of the coldest inhabited parts of the world !
  - rsync 5y ago
    Responding to your child, echelon, because replies ran out ... Shanghai is one of those edge climates where it's not quite cold enough to do something about the cold, but just cold enough to be uncomfortable and deploy a band-aid fix. So they don't make real investments in climate control and everyone is cold and/or wears sweaters in the office and/or deploys electric heaters ...

anonymousiam 5y ago

Or perhaps a byproduct of the increase in the price of oil.

anonymousiam 5y ago
https://www.npr.org/2021/10/01/1042209223/why-covid-is-affecting-chinas-power-rations https://www.npr.org/2021/10/01/1042209223/why-covid-is-affec...

ct0 5y ago

Seriously? China is pretty petty.

duxup 5y ago
I think generally speaking humans are petty and nation to nation 'punishments' and reactions generally look petty just by default ... short of war. Good or bad choice I'll leave that to everyone else to decide (wouldn't cost China much to just do ... nothing) but I think it's human nature to some extent.
HPsquared 5y ago
Sometimes it can be advantageous to appear petty and unstable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_theory

chenzhekl 5y ago

As far as I can see, the answer is negative. The shortage of electricity this time is believed to result from two factors. On the one hand, the price of coal has increased a lot recently, but the electricity price is only allowed to float by at most 10%. Power generation is now a money-losing business. As a result, there is no motivation for power plants to produce more electricity. On the other hand, the goverment wants to achieve carbon neutrality by 2060, so local goverments at all levels are assigned some KPIs. Because of the return of manufacturing caused by COVID-19 in the first half of the year, many places used up their entire year's worth of emission credits early, so they had to forcibly cut off production.

srcmap 5y ago
Wonder if this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58026038 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58026038 (China nuclear: Taishan reactor shut down over damaged fuel rods) is also a factor......
- fomine3 5y ago
  Impact of lack of single reactor is negligible for whole grid.
  - RugnirViking 5y ago
    Depends on the grid - some countries get almost 10% of their power from single reactors. Of course, bigger countries have this less

beaunative 5y ago

This is quite a stretch. People commenting "in part", of course in part it is, but is also being ango-centric and ignoring real reasons, banning Australia' import is quite an superficial and insiginicant contributor. The global coal price has been on the rise, that's irrespective if China has the ban or not. Even it does, it's still a quite small percentage in terms of total energy supply. I'd rather not argue on this. Find some significant or likely significant reasons, otherwise we are just focusing on logically indefensible but insignificant aspects of things (80% sure there is a term for it)

didntknowya 5y ago

lol they have better ways of flexing without shooting themselves in the foot. not everything they do is based on foreign policy.