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Fwiw I've been using Signal as my primary communications channel along with email for the past few years. There's an outage once a year or so, but I can live wi

Fwiw I've been using Signal as my primary communications channel along with email for the past few years. There's an outage once a year or so, but I can live with that. It just works--for voice calls, video calls, chat, groups, etc. The real question here isn't about which system is technologically superior (though HN gravitates to that question), it's which one is technologically superior taking into account network effects. Briar and Session may be great, and I wish everyone used them, but at present at least where I live it'd be very tough going. Getting people to use Signal isn't all that hard, the network is pretty robust in my communities (university city).

noja 5y ago
I'm seeing usage fall off among my network, because it doesn't replace WhatsApp: * it can't save photos to the camera roll * notifications are hit and miss
- georgyo 5y ago
  I'm guessing your an iPhone user. It's not an excuse, but I've seen other people on iOS have similar problems. Both of these issues do not exist on Android versions of Signal.
  - mike_pol 5y ago
    Yeah I had exactly the same problem myself on iOS, I'm really promoting it to all my friends and family but this is quite a bad bug. Also I've noticed that sometimes that calls don't connect through and the person will only notice the missed call when he relaunches the app.
- atatatat 5y ago
  I have 47 people I've personally transitioned to the app, and haven't had notification issues — check OS settings, use better phone. Saving pictures also works fine.
- agilob 5y ago
  >* notifications are hit and miss Blame your Android distribution https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/5085#issuecomment-566749236 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/5085#issu...
  - neogodless 5y ago
    This might actually solve the issue for me. I'll update a setting and see. (The setting is allowing Signal to run without "intelligent" battery optimization. Will also have to see if it affects battery life.)
  - noja 5y ago
    It's on iOS.
- david_allison 5y ago
  > notifications are hit and miss If you're on Android, check out https://dontkillmyapp.com/ https://dontkillmyapp.com/
- neogodless 5y ago
  Oops, just seeing this. I put a similar comment about notifications not working for me on Android or Windows. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28670777 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28670777
- i21QMgplhRJs2OL 5y ago
  On iOS: 1. Click Photo. 2. Click Share Sheet. 3. Click save photo.
- Markoff 5y ago
  used signal for years before it became trendy recently, it had always problems with delivering messages when switching between mobile data and wifi, whatsapp will choose best connection almost instantly, it took Signal minutes or didn't choose it at all heck for years you could not even select multiple photos to share at once from file picker I vivily remember how Signal didn't work for like 8 hours because it was during night in US and the responsible person was sleeping, so these 3 hours outage is nothing with this profesionally managed client/network that last drop was when they started to nag me with mandatory PIN code through half screen, then we just left with extended family, F that
- NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
  I can save photos just fine, and notifications aren't a problem. iOS?
badrabbit 5y ago
I have used Signal for many years as well, I am now trying to move away from it because while the security is nice, it lacks a good backup/restore mechanism. All the critical data I recieved or sent on it is encrypted and even with the same number and pin it can't "merge" or import specific backups! The thick log that broke the camel's back for me was having to keep an android phone specifically for Signal usage because you can't import android backups on iPhones. Somehow they have resources to create a cryptocoin and other features I have no use for but basic reliability needs, at least for me is not met by this app. I would like to say to each his own but the nature of communication apps makes them useless if others don't also use it. The typical response I get for this is some form of whataboutism. I will just use whatever else I find for now until they figure out a way to monetize it and care about user needs (such as not mandating phone numbers and being able to register the same number on multiple devices so I can use it on iPhone for example without stopping android usage) or some other app like threema will gain popularity like Signal.
- NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
  Would you be willing to create tickets for these items if they don't exist already? What does one need to actually contribute code to Signal?
  - h4waii 5y ago
    There are over 200 open pull requests in GitHub for the Signal Android app, ones dating back to 2015. Instead, stupid shit (stickers, crypto, etc) is being introduced, and actual discussions around fundamental changes to make Signal better and more private are being ignored. Lots of people are trying to contribute, but Signal is more and more becoming a black box, I say this as a t-shirt wearing (Open Whisper Systems) advocate, Signal is falling out of favor with many "OG" advocates.
    - NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
      I wonder what the best solution is. Can we fork and still be interoperable?
dnautics 5y ago
I had to quit using signal after I found it had dropped a TON of SMS messages headed my way.
- eptcyka 5y ago
  Signal is a horrible SMS client.
  - dnautics 5y ago
    Obviously, I agree. I presume part of it is that the platforms REALLY don't want your app to take over the SMS.
kitkat_new 5y ago
I think Matrix is a very hot candidate here - federation (while P2P might be interesting for some, it definitely isn't something for everyone - yet, see below) - scalable from private messaging up to thousands of users ((soon) with Spaces and threading) - unlimited multi device with synchronization - prospectively P2P with offline usage (Pinecones) - open standard enabling competition
- fauigerzigerk 5y ago
  I agree Matrix is promising and I use it on a regular basis, but I wish they made it easier for non-technical people to join and use. I haven't been very successful convincing people to join. Some tried but were immediately put off by the complicated UI. It takes too much explaining and hand holding. Those constantly in-your-face "session verification" prompts are bewildering and useless. And then it's impossible to disable spell checking in the Element client. I hope it continues to get better.
  - tombert 5y ago
    Granted, this was about 1.5 years ago, so a lot has probably changed, but when a fellow engineer friend and I decided to switch to Matrix, we have a lot of trouble getting the end-to-end encryption working. It required a lot of finagling and sharing of keys and was pretty annoying. Being engineers, we did figure everything out, but I couldn't see any non-technical users going through the headache, particularly when Signal is just "install and you're done".
    - fauigerzigerk 5y ago
      That one appears to have been fixed. It's just a one-click thing now to enable E2EE.
      - tombert 5y ago
        oh? I'll have to check it out then. I would definitely prefer federated chat.

noja 5y ago

I'm seeing usage fall off among my network, because it doesn't replace WhatsApp: * it can't save photos to the camera roll * notifications are hit and miss

georgyo 5y ago
I'm guessing your an iPhone user. It's not an excuse, but I've seen other people on iOS have similar problems. Both of these issues do not exist on Android versions of Signal.
- mike_pol 5y ago
  Yeah I had exactly the same problem myself on iOS, I'm really promoting it to all my friends and family but this is quite a bad bug. Also I've noticed that sometimes that calls don't connect through and the person will only notice the missed call when he relaunches the app.
atatatat 5y ago
I have 47 people I've personally transitioned to the app, and haven't had notification issues — check OS settings, use better phone. Saving pictures also works fine.
agilob 5y ago
>* notifications are hit and miss Blame your Android distribution https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/5085#issuecomment-566749236 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/5085#issu...
- neogodless 5y ago
  This might actually solve the issue for me. I'll update a setting and see. (The setting is allowing Signal to run without "intelligent" battery optimization. Will also have to see if it affects battery life.)
- noja 5y ago
  It's on iOS.
david_allison 5y ago
> notifications are hit and miss If you're on Android, check out https://dontkillmyapp.com/ https://dontkillmyapp.com/
neogodless 5y ago
Oops, just seeing this. I put a similar comment about notifications not working for me on Android or Windows. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28670777 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28670777
i21QMgplhRJs2OL 5y ago
On iOS: 1. Click Photo. 2. Click Share Sheet. 3. Click save photo.
Markoff 5y ago
used signal for years before it became trendy recently, it had always problems with delivering messages when switching between mobile data and wifi, whatsapp will choose best connection almost instantly, it took Signal minutes or didn't choose it at all heck for years you could not even select multiple photos to share at once from file picker I vivily remember how Signal didn't work for like 8 hours because it was during night in US and the responsible person was sleeping, so these 3 hours outage is nothing with this profesionally managed client/network that last drop was when they started to nag me with mandatory PIN code through half screen, then we just left with extended family, F that
NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
I can save photos just fine, and notifications aren't a problem. iOS?

badrabbit 5y ago

I have used Signal for many years as well, I am now trying to move away from it because while the security is nice, it lacks a good backup/restore mechanism. All the critical data I recieved or sent on it is encrypted and even with the same number and pin it can't "merge" or import specific backups! The thick log that broke the camel's back for me was having to keep an android phone specifically for Signal usage because you can't import android backups on iPhones. Somehow they have resources to create a cryptocoin and other features I have no use for but basic reliability needs, at least for me is not met by this app. I would like to say to each his own but the nature of communication apps makes them useless if others don't also use it. The typical response I get for this is some form of whataboutism. I will just use whatever else I find for now until they figure out a way to monetize it and care about user needs (such as not mandating phone numbers and being able to register the same number on multiple devices so I can use it on iPhone for example without stopping android usage) or some other app like threema will gain popularity like Signal.

NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
Would you be willing to create tickets for these items if they don't exist already? What does one need to actually contribute code to Signal?
- h4waii 5y ago
  There are over 200 open pull requests in GitHub for the Signal Android app, ones dating back to 2015. Instead, stupid shit (stickers, crypto, etc) is being introduced, and actual discussions around fundamental changes to make Signal better and more private are being ignored. Lots of people are trying to contribute, but Signal is more and more becoming a black box, I say this as a t-shirt wearing (Open Whisper Systems) advocate, Signal is falling out of favor with many "OG" advocates.
  - NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
    I wonder what the best solution is. Can we fork and still be interoperable?

dnautics 5y ago

I had to quit using signal after I found it had dropped a TON of SMS messages headed my way.

eptcyka 5y ago
Signal is a horrible SMS client.
- dnautics 5y ago
  Obviously, I agree. I presume part of it is that the platforms REALLY don't want your app to take over the SMS.

kitkat_new 5y ago

I think Matrix is a very hot candidate here - federation (while P2P might be interesting for some, it definitely isn't something for everyone - yet, see below) - scalable from private messaging up to thousands of users ((soon) with Spaces and threading) - unlimited multi device with synchronization - prospectively P2P with offline usage (Pinecones) - open standard enabling competition

fauigerzigerk 5y ago
I agree Matrix is promising and I use it on a regular basis, but I wish they made it easier for non-technical people to join and use. I haven't been very successful convincing people to join. Some tried but were immediately put off by the complicated UI. It takes too much explaining and hand holding. Those constantly in-your-face "session verification" prompts are bewildering and useless. And then it's impossible to disable spell checking in the Element client. I hope it continues to get better.
- tombert 5y ago
  Granted, this was about 1.5 years ago, so a lot has probably changed, but when a fellow engineer friend and I decided to switch to Matrix, we have a lot of trouble getting the end-to-end encryption working. It required a lot of finagling and sharing of keys and was pretty annoying. Being engineers, we did figure everything out, but I couldn't see any non-technical users going through the headache, particularly when Signal is just "install and you're done".
  - fauigerzigerk 5y ago
    That one appears to have been fixed. It's just a one-click thing now to enable E2EE.
    - tombert 5y ago
      oh? I'll have to check it out then. I would definitely prefer federated chat.