6 ms·

The issue is more like the guarantee is not worth anything. AWS/Azure/whomever "promise" 5 9s uptime. Something goes wrong, you don't get 5 9s, and what do you

The issue is more like the guarantee is not worth anything. AWS/Azure/whomever "promise" 5 9s uptime. Something goes wrong, you don't get 5 9s, and what do you get? A system that went down for 4 hours and a $50 rebate on your next bill!

sciurus 5y ago
Your point about the credit s stands, but could providers don't even offer 5 9 SLAs. E.G. https://aws.amazon.com/compute/sla/ https://aws.amazon.com/compute/sla/
supermatt 5y ago
its not about AWS/Azure etc. They are providing IaaS. Literally compute services littered around the globe. It is up to these so-called cloud service providers, like heroku, to utilize that infrastructure to achieve 99.999%. I even gave a link in my comment to what AWS say about this. Are people downvoting me because they dont read, or what?
- weird-eye-issue 5y ago
  You make it sound like AWS has 100% uptime and services built on top of them are completely to blame. And for something like Heroku's managed DBs you can't just achieve 99.99999% availability on a DB without making certain sacrifices. Availability isn't everything past a certain point
  - sitzkrieg 5y ago
    has aws ever suffered multi region blackouts? or even all AZs in one?
  - supermatt 5y ago
    Thats not what im doing at all. I even gave a link to AWS documentation of achieving 5-nines by utilizing multiple AZs, etc. I also reiterated this in the comment you responded to above.. What sacrifices you talking about when synchronously replicating to a backup environment? Write latency? How do you deal with that usually? How much is too much? There are strategies to deal with reducing replication related latency depending on level of consistency required.
    - weird-eye-issue 5y ago
      Costs and general complexity. It is quite easy to accidentally reduce a system's uptime by introducing extra complexity involved with higher availability
      - supermatt 5y ago
        Oh yeah, there are definitely additional costs and complexity involved. Im just saying that these cloud service providers offering managed services should be covering all that - they certainly charge as if they do! And in the case of heroku - and their specific architecture - it is not that complex. Im aware that other cases may vary.
        Amasuriel 5y ago
        No particular love for Heroku, but you can pay for multi az failover if you want it. https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/heroku-postgres-ha https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/heroku-postgres-ha If you don’t pay you won’t get the feature. Given that multi az failover directly impacts their cost that seems pretty fair.
        supermatt 5y ago
        Yeah, I suppose in some circumstances their offering is OK. I don't think i have ever worked on a system where 10 mins of data loss is anywhere near acceptable though. I guess for mostly static pages, or self hosting a blog its ok, although id be pissed if i had to rewrite an article. Makes you wonder who their target market is.

sciurus 5y ago

Your point about the credit s stands, but could providers don't even offer 5 9 SLAs. E.G. https://aws.amazon.com/compute/sla/ https://aws.amazon.com/compute/sla/

supermatt 5y ago

its not about AWS/Azure etc. They are providing IaaS. Literally compute services littered around the globe. It is up to these so-called cloud service providers, like heroku, to utilize that infrastructure to achieve 99.999%. I even gave a link in my comment to what AWS say about this. Are people downvoting me because they dont read, or what?

weird-eye-issue 5y ago
You make it sound like AWS has 100% uptime and services built on top of them are completely to blame. And for something like Heroku's managed DBs you can't just achieve 99.99999% availability on a DB without making certain sacrifices. Availability isn't everything past a certain point
- sitzkrieg 5y ago
  has aws ever suffered multi region blackouts? or even all AZs in one?
- supermatt 5y ago
  Thats not what im doing at all. I even gave a link to AWS documentation of achieving 5-nines by utilizing multiple AZs, etc. I also reiterated this in the comment you responded to above.. What sacrifices you talking about when synchronously replicating to a backup environment? Write latency? How do you deal with that usually? How much is too much? There are strategies to deal with reducing replication related latency depending on level of consistency required.
  - weird-eye-issue 5y ago
    Costs and general complexity. It is quite easy to accidentally reduce a system's uptime by introducing extra complexity involved with higher availability
    - supermatt 5y ago
      Oh yeah, there are definitely additional costs and complexity involved. Im just saying that these cloud service providers offering managed services should be covering all that - they certainly charge as if they do! And in the case of heroku - and their specific architecture - it is not that complex. Im aware that other cases may vary.
      - Amasuriel 5y ago
        No particular love for Heroku, but you can pay for multi az failover if you want it. https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/heroku-postgres-ha https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/heroku-postgres-ha If you don’t pay you won’t get the feature. Given that multi az failover directly impacts their cost that seems pretty fair.
        supermatt 5y ago
        Yeah, I suppose in some circumstances their offering is OK. I don't think i have ever worked on a system where 10 mins of data loss is anywhere near acceptable though. I guess for mostly static pages, or self hosting a blog its ok, although id be pissed if i had to rewrite an article. Makes you wonder who their target market is.