5 ms·

Interactive elements are common in high security keys, like protec 2 and Mul-T interactive. They provide good security against low skill casting (though protec

Interactive elements are common in high security keys, like protec 2 and Mul-T interactive. They provide good security against low skill casting (though protec 2 has its element at the front which makes it easy to modify a mold to permit a pick to operate the element). It's easy to modify a 3d printed key to allow sliding in a shallow pick to operate the interactive

throwaway81523 5y ago
At a certain fairly early point this stuff has to become impractical compared to electronic keys (contactless smart card, or even a mag swipe like in hotels, where the door code gets changed after the guest checks out). I wonder why this high end mechanical stuff even exists in this day and age.
- Freak_NL 5y ago
  Because anything electronic has a higher maintenance upkeep on the lock side. A good quality mechanical lock can work for decades even in bad conditions, and power outages have no effect at all.
- user-the-name 5y ago
  Because an electrical lock has a wider attack surface. Instead of attacking the key itself, you can try to disrupt the electronics to cause the lock to open itself, which is sometimes easier, even a lot easier.
  - gsliepen 5y ago
    Or worse, they do a very good job on the electronics, but forget about basic mechanics. The LPL has lots of examples of that as well.
- dagw 5y ago
  In general, bypassing electronic keys is in no way harder than picking locks, it's just a different skill set. Here are some common bypass methods that work on many real world electronic locks deployed in the wild. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbn3JtoFdPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbn3JtoFdPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHvfwpnPwwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHvfwpnPwwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQTz1OmmHYo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQTz1OmmHYo
- michaelt 5y ago
  > I wonder why this high end mechanical stuff even exists in this day and age. * Mechanical bypass for electronic locks, to deal with battery failures, damaged readers etc * Anything that needs a padlock - for some reason, most electronic padlocks are trash. * Things that need cheap moderate security - vending machines, confidential-waste-for-shredding bins. * Things that need the simplicity of classic keys, or that need to be controlled by someone different to the door access system. Safety lock-out systems, lift shaft / roof access. * Things that are already behind electronic locks, but need an extra layer of security - e.g. the safe in the ambassador's office.
- ta988 5y ago
  Because you are thinking about a single door. Cost of implementing and maintaining non-copiable RFID is much higher. My workplace uses Medeco M3, I have 7+ keys for the various areas I have access to, I can be given a key for a specific area for the time I need to do something over there, etc. Some areas behind electronic access as well but it is rudimentary and it did cost us an insane amount of money to just install that an a few doors because we have to use union shops that abuse us (took them weeks to do, four people showing up to find out they were missing a plate so they came back a week after and found out another part was missing etc for 3 months, no kidding...)

throwaway81523 5y ago

At a certain fairly early point this stuff has to become impractical compared to electronic keys (contactless smart card, or even a mag swipe like in hotels, where the door code gets changed after the guest checks out). I wonder why this high end mechanical stuff even exists in this day and age.

Freak_NL 5y ago
Because anything electronic has a higher maintenance upkeep on the lock side. A good quality mechanical lock can work for decades even in bad conditions, and power outages have no effect at all.
user-the-name 5y ago
Because an electrical lock has a wider attack surface. Instead of attacking the key itself, you can try to disrupt the electronics to cause the lock to open itself, which is sometimes easier, even a lot easier.
- gsliepen 5y ago
  Or worse, they do a very good job on the electronics, but forget about basic mechanics. The LPL has lots of examples of that as well.
dagw 5y ago
In general, bypassing electronic keys is in no way harder than picking locks, it's just a different skill set. Here are some common bypass methods that work on many real world electronic locks deployed in the wild. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbn3JtoFdPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbn3JtoFdPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHvfwpnPwwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHvfwpnPwwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQTz1OmmHYo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQTz1OmmHYo
michaelt 5y ago
> I wonder why this high end mechanical stuff even exists in this day and age. * Mechanical bypass for electronic locks, to deal with battery failures, damaged readers etc * Anything that needs a padlock - for some reason, most electronic padlocks are trash. * Things that need cheap moderate security - vending machines, confidential-waste-for-shredding bins. * Things that need the simplicity of classic keys, or that need to be controlled by someone different to the door access system. Safety lock-out systems, lift shaft / roof access. * Things that are already behind electronic locks, but need an extra layer of security - e.g. the safe in the ambassador's office.
ta988 5y ago
Because you are thinking about a single door. Cost of implementing and maintaining non-copiable RFID is much higher. My workplace uses Medeco M3, I have 7+ keys for the various areas I have access to, I can be given a key for a specific area for the time I need to do something over there, etc. Some areas behind electronic access as well but it is rudimentary and it did cost us an insane amount of money to just install that an a few doors because we have to use union shops that abuse us (took them weeks to do, four people showing up to find out they were missing a plate so they came back a week after and found out another part was missing etc for 3 months, no kidding...)