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You know, as someone stuck using XHTML within the Java ecosystem for web apps, i'd say that it's reasonably easy and nice to work with. However, i'd also like t

You know, as someone stuck using XHTML within the Java ecosystem for web apps, i'd say that it's reasonably easy and nice to work with. However, i'd also like to suggest that custom tags, at least when implemented in the ways that are popular in those particular technologies (JSF/PrimeFaces) are bad both from a usability and maintainability perspective - it took many years for React to come around and make components easy to create and utilize. XHTML with the semantics of React would be way better. That said, i'm also stuck in the middle of migrating older versions of frameworks (Spring) to newer ones (Spring Boot) and it's proving to be extremely cumbersome and feels like it'll be impossible to get right without spending multiple months on the migration. Most of the older technologies are considered "dead" nowadays for a reason, though at the same time i agree that they can hold a certain wisdom.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago
> XHTML with the semantics of React would be way better. Isn't Web Components an attempt at something like that?
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Yes, and if XTHML handn't been thrown away, we would have them much sooner based on "XML Fragments".
vintermann 5y ago
"Actually pretty decent ideas, but completely botched on implementation elsewhere" is a story that we've heard many times in the Java world... I remember the OSGI folks elation as Eclipse turned to OSGI from their custom plug in system, turn to dismay as they saw how it was actually used.
- DonHopkins 5y ago
  Whereas TCL was a beautiful and perfect implementation of a very silly idea. Remember in 1994 just before Java, when Sun hired TCL's developer John Ousterhout, then unilaterally announced that TCL would be the official scripting language of web browsers? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ousterhout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ousterhout http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Ousterhout/index.shtml http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Ousterhout/index.shtml And that triggered RMS into posting his controversial "Why you should not use TCL" announcement, which kicked off the Great TCL War of 1994: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12025218 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12025218 https://vanderburg.org/old_pages/Tcl/war/ https://vanderburg.org/old_pages/Tcl/war/ "Java is a DSL for taking large XML files and converting them to stack traces" -Andrew Back https://twitter.com/9600/status/90729345307521024?lang=en https://twitter.com/9600/status/90729345307521024?lang=en
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Well, all major Java CMS are now based on OSGI as extensibility model.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

> XHTML with the semantics of React would be way better. Isn't Web Components an attempt at something like that?

pjmlp 5y ago
Yes, and if XTHML handn't been thrown away, we would have them much sooner based on "XML Fragments".

vintermann 5y ago

"Actually pretty decent ideas, but completely botched on implementation elsewhere" is a story that we've heard many times in the Java world... I remember the OSGI folks elation as Eclipse turned to OSGI from their custom plug in system, turn to dismay as they saw how it was actually used.

DonHopkins 5y ago
Whereas TCL was a beautiful and perfect implementation of a very silly idea. Remember in 1994 just before Java, when Sun hired TCL's developer John Ousterhout, then unilaterally announced that TCL would be the official scripting language of web browsers? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ousterhout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ousterhout http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Ousterhout/index.shtml http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Ousterhout/index.shtml And that triggered RMS into posting his controversial "Why you should not use TCL" announcement, which kicked off the Great TCL War of 1994: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12025218 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12025218 https://vanderburg.org/old_pages/Tcl/war/ https://vanderburg.org/old_pages/Tcl/war/ "Java is a DSL for taking large XML files and converting them to stack traces" -Andrew Back https://twitter.com/9600/status/90729345307521024?lang=en https://twitter.com/9600/status/90729345307521024?lang=en
pjmlp 5y ago
Well, all major Java CMS are now based on OSGI as extensibility model.