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Apple doesn't have to permanently disable FaceID to maintain security; just require a password to log in after the screen has changed and reinitialize FaceID. A

Apple doesn't have to permanently disable FaceID to maintain security; just require a password to log in after the screen has changed and reinitialize FaceID. And as another comment said "if the device detects any component has been tampered with, the user will be alerted during the first boot up".

xwdv 5y ago
That’s less secure.
- oauea 5y ago
  Most secure would be for the device to go up in flames as soon as it detects any tampering. I sure wouldn't want to own such a device that could never be repaired.
- spoonjim 5y ago
  No less secure than the regular OS, which always allows you to use the passcode rather than the FaceID.
aj3 5y ago
I guess they want to prevent someone from intercepting and tampering with a phone while it's being shipped to the customer, you know the supply chain attacks NSA (https://www.theverge.com/2013/12/29/5253226/nsa-cia-fbi-laptop-usb-plant-spy https://www.theverge.com/2013/12/29/5253226/nsa-cia-fbi-lapt...) and CIA (https://phys.org/news/2017-03-wikileaks-cia-hacks-apple-mac.html https://phys.org/news/2017-03-wikileaks-cia-hacks-apple-mac....) perfected.
- leereeves 5y ago
  But there is a way to replace the screen without disabling FaceID (how Apple does it), and the NSA likely knows how to do that as well. Or if they don't, they could force Apple to do so secretly.
  - craftinator 5y ago
    Oh no, there is no way a three letter agency found out Apples secret sauce. Obscurity is the only form of security that they'll never be able to crack!
  - marcan_42 5y ago
    The NSA doesn't have Apple's private keys. They aren't a magical organization that can crack all modern crypto either.
    - leereeves 5y ago
      Are you certain they don't have Apple's private keys? They have many ways to compel or persuade someone who does have access to those keys to give the keys to the NSA, or to infiltrate Apple with their own agents.
      - threeseed 5y ago
        Apple is going to be far more concerned about countries like China, Saudi Arabia etc than the US. The rule of law is significantly weaker and they have already shown that they will go after even mild dissidents e.g. journalists not just mass-terrorists or other more serious threats. So sure US may have the keys. But unlikely every country does.
      - simonh 5y ago
        It seems unlikely that Apple and the US government would litigate so aggressively against each other, over hacking or forcing back doors into Apple systems, if Apple had already been forced to hand over the keys to the government.
        leereeves 5y ago
        We're talking about two different systems: the criminal justice system and the national security apparatus. The first system rarely gets help from the second, and the second may even be happy to see such litigation misleading adversaries about the government's real capabilities.
- zihotki 5y ago
  I wonder how does that prevent NSA and CIA level intercepting and tampering? NSA and CIA can't work with Apple to get their hardware to be signed as well? I don't believe it.
ladberg 5y ago
I'm not saying it's realistic, but one could theoretically replace the sensor with a fake one that always returned the same data. That would allow the user to re-setup face ID and let unknowingly let any intruder in.

xwdv 5y ago

That’s less secure.

oauea 5y ago
Most secure would be for the device to go up in flames as soon as it detects any tampering. I sure wouldn't want to own such a device that could never be repaired.
spoonjim 5y ago
No less secure than the regular OS, which always allows you to use the passcode rather than the FaceID.

aj3 5y ago

I guess they want to prevent someone from intercepting and tampering with a phone while it's being shipped to the customer, you know the supply chain attacks NSA (https://www.theverge.com/2013/12/29/5253226/nsa-cia-fbi-laptop-usb-plant-spy https://www.theverge.com/2013/12/29/5253226/nsa-cia-fbi-lapt...) and CIA (https://phys.org/news/2017-03-wikileaks-cia-hacks-apple-mac.html https://phys.org/news/2017-03-wikileaks-cia-hacks-apple-mac....) perfected.

leereeves 5y ago
But there is a way to replace the screen without disabling FaceID (how Apple does it), and the NSA likely knows how to do that as well. Or if they don't, they could force Apple to do so secretly.
- craftinator 5y ago
  Oh no, there is no way a three letter agency found out Apples secret sauce. Obscurity is the only form of security that they'll never be able to crack!
- marcan_42 5y ago
  The NSA doesn't have Apple's private keys. They aren't a magical organization that can crack all modern crypto either.
  - leereeves 5y ago
    Are you certain they don't have Apple's private keys? They have many ways to compel or persuade someone who does have access to those keys to give the keys to the NSA, or to infiltrate Apple with their own agents.
    - threeseed 5y ago
      Apple is going to be far more concerned about countries like China, Saudi Arabia etc than the US. The rule of law is significantly weaker and they have already shown that they will go after even mild dissidents e.g. journalists not just mass-terrorists or other more serious threats. So sure US may have the keys. But unlikely every country does.
    - simonh 5y ago
      It seems unlikely that Apple and the US government would litigate so aggressively against each other, over hacking or forcing back doors into Apple systems, if Apple had already been forced to hand over the keys to the government.
      - leereeves 5y ago
        We're talking about two different systems: the criminal justice system and the national security apparatus. The first system rarely gets help from the second, and the second may even be happy to see such litigation misleading adversaries about the government's real capabilities.
zihotki 5y ago
I wonder how does that prevent NSA and CIA level intercepting and tampering? NSA and CIA can't work with Apple to get their hardware to be signed as well? I don't believe it.

ladberg 5y ago

I'm not saying it's realistic, but one could theoretically replace the sensor with a fake one that always returned the same data. That would allow the user to re-setup face ID and let unknowingly let any intruder in.