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It's really annoying that they didn't even acknowledge the problem officially. Till about 15 minutes ago, their status page said everything was fine. Their Twit

It's really annoying that they didn't even acknowledge the problem officially. Till about 15 minutes ago, their status page said everything was fine. Their Twitter account still doesn't mention any technical problems. But the service has been having issues for at least 3 hours. [1] Most people I know that started using Signal a few months ago are now back to using Whatsapp. Privacy is a nice feature to advertise, but when both your UX and your reliability suck, it's not a good combo. EDIT: A tweet has emerged 3 hours after the outage started. [1] https://downdetector.com/status/signal/ https://downdetector.com/status/signal/

decrypt 5y ago
They did now: https://twitter.com/signalapp/status/1442354759009247232 https://twitter.com/signalapp/status/1442354759009247232
YeBanKo 5y ago
They also did not acknowledge the previous big outage, that happen at the beginning of the year. Their blog does not mention what steps are being taken to mitigate scalability issues. While the protocol and their effort to make everything secure is amazing, lack of transparency into reliability is concerning and a barrier to adoption. However, I don’t think the UX is bad, so far it has been sufficient for me.
nothroughroad 5y ago
who gives a crap about most people you know?
MihaiSandor 5y ago
And also it is buggy when running on iOS devices. (crash app, media files not working)
colordrops 5y ago
Not sure I'd say that their reliability "sucks". I've been using it for years and this is only the second major outage I can recall, the other being when an Elon tweet dogpiled millions of users onto the service.
- bogota 5y ago
  I wouldn’t say it sucks but they have had a number of times where it’s clear something is going on for an hour or so but it’s resolved without any notice being issued. Overall i would say its reliable but not communicating out issues is a really fast way to lose user trust.
- maqp 5y ago
  Tens of millions, 50 million to be more precise. <:
soziawa 5y ago
> Most people I know that started using Signal a few months ago are now back to using Whatsapp. Privacy is a nice feature to advertise, but when both your UX and your reliability suck, it's not a good combo. Fully agree on the UX but not the reliability. WhatsApp used to be famous in Switzerland for its unreliability. On big European football games and Christmas / New Year WhatsApp was regularely down for 3 hours and more.
- Santosh83 5y ago
  > Fully agree on the UX but not the reliability. WhatsApp used to be famous in Switzerland for its unreliability. On big European football games and Christmas / New Year WhatsApp was regularely down for 3 hours and more. How do you know this is not intentional silencing by the govt to prevent terrorist attacks?
  - 314 5y ago
    How do you know it is not X is not a reasonable form of argument. How do you know it is not quantum fluctuations in the techno-babble framework they use?
MertsA 5y ago
They're taking the Amazon approach to providing a status page. If you can still load the page, clearly it's not completely down. /s
gnicholas 5y ago
I haven't had reliability problems, but I do find it annoying that if I don't update my app frequently enough, they just cut communications entirely. That is, I don't get notifications that I've received new messages anymore. I usually find out about this when someone emails me to say they've sent me a message on Signal, but I've not responded. Instead of silently failing, I wish they would pop up a notification that says "Your version of Signal is now out-of-date, and you will not receive new messages until you update."
- abandonliberty 5y ago
  I can't imagine this is an intentional choice by Signal. Always assumed it had something to do with the OS silencing unused applications.
  - Moru 5y ago
    Yes, this was my impression too. When I turned that off, it started working ok. But this does not help on relatives phones, only on mine.
  - gnicholas 5y ago
    I receive notifications for apps that I use less than this, like Lyft. I manage my notifications very carefully, and I have never silenced Signal on my phone. Also, I don't go that long between sessions of using Signal — just apparently long enough to trigger this issue.
  - Vinnl 5y ago
    For others with similar problems, they have a troubleshooting guide including model-specific tips at https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007318711-Troubleshooting-Notifications https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007318711-Tr...
- hulitu 5y ago
  Whatsapp forces you to update to be able to use it further. Not a nice thing.
davros 5y ago
Counterpoint - I'm completely happy with signal. The useability, contrary to some comments here, is wonderful. In particular I love the desktop app, it was easy to get family to use and does everything I need smoothly and with good privacy.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- krater23 5y ago
  Sounds like you have a relatively new smartphone and never used Whatsapp.
  - jeltz 5y ago
    WhatsApp has awful usability and no desktop version.
    - the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
      WhatsApp has a desktop version.
      - fastball 5y ago
        And it's better than Signal's desktop app.
      - Smaug123 5y ago
        WhatsApp's desktop version is crippled because it requires connectivity to your phone in order to use it. I believe they're working on a client that doesn't require that, but it's not here yet.
        tcpekin 5y ago
        I have been trying the beta and it's pretty decent. Still alternate between signal, telegram and whatsapp for different groups/people, but the beta definitely seems better that what was before. https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/download-and-installation/about-multi-device-beta/?lang=en https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/download-and-installation/a...
mro_name 5y ago
how much do you spend on the service that's so crucial to you? What do you expect to get when giving nothing? Whoever is keeping a Whatsapp Account nowadays shits on the privacy of all their addressbook contacts and can't be helped, obviously. It may not be a friend.
- fastball 5y ago
  Ummm, I've paid more for WhatsApp than I did for Signal. The money for signal kinda came (in a roudabout way) from the money I gave to WhatsApp.
  - mro_name 5y ago
    lol, that sadly doesn't count then.
    - fastball 5y ago
      What doesn't count?
      - mro_name 5y ago
        paying whatsapp doesn't pay for the signal service.
        fastball 5y ago
        No, I paid for WhatsApp (as did millions of other people), which is part of the reason it sold to Facebook for ~20B. Brian Acton then used that money to bankroll Signal, which unlike WhatsApp doesn't seem to have a clear path to profitability in the long term.
Traubenfuchs 5y ago
I pushed some people to change to Signal. We are all back now and I feel pretty dumb for having done that.
- croes 5y ago
  Why do you feel dumb?
  - atatatat 5y ago
    Being a person who influences others' technology can be a massive social responsibility depending on you locale.
  - Traubenfuchs 5y ago
    Multiple outages now, worse ux, broken video call functionality, this annoying forced pincode, very bad desktop app instead browser portal. The list goes on. Whatsapp is actually an amazing app, now that I think about it.
    - croes 5y ago
      Strange, I'm using Signal since since 5 years and this was my second outage and I still prefer privacy over UX. But can't complain about the UX.
    - croes 5y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28748203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28748203 Do you feel dumb now too?
teekert 5y ago
The people I got on Signal that dropped it (and not everyone did, it stuck for all my in-laws), did so because everyone was on WA anyway, including the people they used Signal with. But they all confessed that the usability was comparable (except for that pincode, which I turned off for some people that didn't understand it and when I explained, didn't need it).
- fastball 5y ago
  I really wanted to keep using Signal but kept having a number of reliability / message delivery / notification issues. Last nail in the coffin was not being able to change my phone number and keep my message history.
vintermann 5y ago
If you're tempted to switch back to WhatsApp because of Signal reliability issues, consider the possibility that you may be the target of a downgrade attack.
- kgraves 5y ago
  my parents don't care about hypothetical downgrade attacks.
INTPenis 5y ago
If people are going back to Whatsapp after that, then let them. Signal has been working really well for me for years now. I don't like it from a privacy standpoint, I'd much rather see wide adoption of Briar or Matrix. But to say Signal isn't working well for a free app is crazy. Who's paying for all their infrastructure anyways? What's the plan Moxie?
- einpoklum 5y ago
  > then let them. That means that _you_ are going back to WhatsApp, then, since when you want to talk to them - that's what you'll use too.
  - INTPenis 5y ago
    I only ever installed WhatsApp to talk to dates. The sad part about being privacy conscious and using the "right apps" is that you still want to communicate with people outside of your bubble. The best thing is definitely having two devices, one you can trust and one you can abuse.
- elpy1 5y ago
  Time for people to look into Session (https://getsession.org https://getsession.org). You get automatic native onion routing via decentralised infrastructure - currently 1800~ community-run servers (service nodes).
  - maqp 5y ago
    Still fraction of the size of the Tor network. Let's take another look in 5..10 years.
    - elpy1 5y ago
      The current number of service nodes is more than enough to power Session, without the need to rely on a central server for message delivery. The size of the network will grow with time and using it obviously contributes to its growth.
ho_schi 5y ago
The UX and reliability sucks? I doubt that. Using Signal for years on a old iPhone SE (1st Gen) and a new Pixel 4a. Signal works perfectly and for many other people. It is just funny when the local radio reports that WhatsApp has another outage. While Signal had only serious problems when WhatsApp changed it terms last time - too many new users. Sounds like "I had once a bug with it therefore it is bad and I know how to doge the bugs in the other crapy software...so the crapy software is better".

decrypt 5y ago

They did now: https://twitter.com/signalapp/status/1442354759009247232 https://twitter.com/signalapp/status/1442354759009247232

YeBanKo 5y ago

They also did not acknowledge the previous big outage, that happen at the beginning of the year. Their blog does not mention what steps are being taken to mitigate scalability issues. While the protocol and their effort to make everything secure is amazing, lack of transparency into reliability is concerning and a barrier to adoption. However, I don’t think the UX is bad, so far it has been sufficient for me.

nothroughroad 5y ago

who gives a crap about most people you know?

MihaiSandor 5y ago

And also it is buggy when running on iOS devices. (crash app, media files not working)

colordrops 5y ago

Not sure I'd say that their reliability "sucks". I've been using it for years and this is only the second major outage I can recall, the other being when an Elon tweet dogpiled millions of users onto the service.

bogota 5y ago
I wouldn’t say it sucks but they have had a number of times where it’s clear something is going on for an hour or so but it’s resolved without any notice being issued. Overall i would say its reliable but not communicating out issues is a really fast way to lose user trust.
maqp 5y ago
Tens of millions, 50 million to be more precise. <:

soziawa 5y ago

> Most people I know that started using Signal a few months ago are now back to using Whatsapp. Privacy is a nice feature to advertise, but when both your UX and your reliability suck, it's not a good combo. Fully agree on the UX but not the reliability. WhatsApp used to be famous in Switzerland for its unreliability. On big European football games and Christmas / New Year WhatsApp was regularely down for 3 hours and more.

Santosh83 5y ago
> Fully agree on the UX but not the reliability. WhatsApp used to be famous in Switzerland for its unreliability. On big European football games and Christmas / New Year WhatsApp was regularely down for 3 hours and more. How do you know this is not intentional silencing by the govt to prevent terrorist attacks?
- 314 5y ago
  How do you know it is not X is not a reasonable form of argument. How do you know it is not quantum fluctuations in the techno-babble framework they use?

MertsA 5y ago

They're taking the Amazon approach to providing a status page. If you can still load the page, clearly it's not completely down. /s

gnicholas 5y ago

I haven't had reliability problems, but I do find it annoying that if I don't update my app frequently enough, they just cut communications entirely. That is, I don't get notifications that I've received new messages anymore. I usually find out about this when someone emails me to say they've sent me a message on Signal, but I've not responded. Instead of silently failing, I wish they would pop up a notification that says "Your version of Signal is now out-of-date, and you will not receive new messages until you update."

abandonliberty 5y ago
I can't imagine this is an intentional choice by Signal. Always assumed it had something to do with the OS silencing unused applications.
- Moru 5y ago
  Yes, this was my impression too. When I turned that off, it started working ok. But this does not help on relatives phones, only on mine.
- gnicholas 5y ago
  I receive notifications for apps that I use less than this, like Lyft. I manage my notifications very carefully, and I have never silenced Signal on my phone. Also, I don't go that long between sessions of using Signal — just apparently long enough to trigger this issue.
- Vinnl 5y ago
  For others with similar problems, they have a troubleshooting guide including model-specific tips at https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007318711-Troubleshooting-Notifications https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007318711-Tr...
hulitu 5y ago
Whatsapp forces you to update to be able to use it further. Not a nice thing.

davros 5y ago

Counterpoint - I'm completely happy with signal. The useability, contrary to some comments here, is wonderful. In particular I love the desktop app, it was easy to get family to use and does everything I need smoothly and with good privacy.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
krater23 5y ago
Sounds like you have a relatively new smartphone and never used Whatsapp.
- jeltz 5y ago
  WhatsApp has awful usability and no desktop version.
  - the_mitsuhiko 5y ago
    WhatsApp has a desktop version.
    - fastball 5y ago
      And it's better than Signal's desktop app.
    - Smaug123 5y ago
      WhatsApp's desktop version is crippled because it requires connectivity to your phone in order to use it. I believe they're working on a client that doesn't require that, but it's not here yet.
      - tcpekin 5y ago
        I have been trying the beta and it's pretty decent. Still alternate between signal, telegram and whatsapp for different groups/people, but the beta definitely seems better that what was before. https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/download-and-installation/about-multi-device-beta/?lang=en https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/download-and-installation/a...

mro_name 5y ago

how much do you spend on the service that's so crucial to you? What do you expect to get when giving nothing? Whoever is keeping a Whatsapp Account nowadays shits on the privacy of all their addressbook contacts and can't be helped, obviously. It may not be a friend.

fastball 5y ago
Ummm, I've paid more for WhatsApp than I did for Signal. The money for signal kinda came (in a roudabout way) from the money I gave to WhatsApp.
- mro_name 5y ago
  lol, that sadly doesn't count then.
  - fastball 5y ago
    What doesn't count?
    - mro_name 5y ago
      paying whatsapp doesn't pay for the signal service.
      - fastball 5y ago
        No, I paid for WhatsApp (as did millions of other people), which is part of the reason it sold to Facebook for ~20B. Brian Acton then used that money to bankroll Signal, which unlike WhatsApp doesn't seem to have a clear path to profitability in the long term.

Traubenfuchs 5y ago

I pushed some people to change to Signal. We are all back now and I feel pretty dumb for having done that.

croes 5y ago
Why do you feel dumb?
- atatatat 5y ago
  Being a person who influences others' technology can be a massive social responsibility depending on you locale.
- Traubenfuchs 5y ago
  Multiple outages now, worse ux, broken video call functionality, this annoying forced pincode, very bad desktop app instead browser portal. The list goes on. Whatsapp is actually an amazing app, now that I think about it.
  - croes 5y ago
    Strange, I'm using Signal since since 5 years and this was my second outage and I still prefer privacy over UX. But can't complain about the UX.
  - croes 5y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28748203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28748203 Do you feel dumb now too?

teekert 5y ago

The people I got on Signal that dropped it (and not everyone did, it stuck for all my in-laws), did so because everyone was on WA anyway, including the people they used Signal with. But they all confessed that the usability was comparable (except for that pincode, which I turned off for some people that didn't understand it and when I explained, didn't need it).

fastball 5y ago
I really wanted to keep using Signal but kept having a number of reliability / message delivery / notification issues. Last nail in the coffin was not being able to change my phone number and keep my message history.

vintermann 5y ago

If you're tempted to switch back to WhatsApp because of Signal reliability issues, consider the possibility that you may be the target of a downgrade attack.

kgraves 5y ago
my parents don't care about hypothetical downgrade attacks.

INTPenis 5y ago

If people are going back to Whatsapp after that, then let them. Signal has been working really well for me for years now. I don't like it from a privacy standpoint, I'd much rather see wide adoption of Briar or Matrix. But to say Signal isn't working well for a free app is crazy. Who's paying for all their infrastructure anyways? What's the plan Moxie?

einpoklum 5y ago
> then let them. That means that _you_ are going back to WhatsApp, then, since when you want to talk to them - that's what you'll use too.
- INTPenis 5y ago
  I only ever installed WhatsApp to talk to dates. The sad part about being privacy conscious and using the "right apps" is that you still want to communicate with people outside of your bubble. The best thing is definitely having two devices, one you can trust and one you can abuse.
elpy1 5y ago
Time for people to look into Session (https://getsession.org https://getsession.org). You get automatic native onion routing via decentralised infrastructure - currently 1800~ community-run servers (service nodes).
- maqp 5y ago
  Still fraction of the size of the Tor network. Let's take another look in 5..10 years.
  - elpy1 5y ago
    The current number of service nodes is more than enough to power Session, without the need to rely on a central server for message delivery. The size of the network will grow with time and using it obviously contributes to its growth.

ho_schi 5y ago

The UX and reliability sucks? I doubt that. Using Signal for years on a old iPhone SE (1st Gen) and a new Pixel 4a. Signal works perfectly and for many other people. It is just funny when the local radio reports that WhatsApp has another outage. While Signal had only serious problems when WhatsApp changed it terms last time - too many new users. Sounds like "I had once a bug with it therefore it is bad and I know how to doge the bugs in the other crapy software...so the crapy software is better".