5 ms·

>the only purpose for a career is to "get rich". What other reason is there for a career? If there was no financial incentive for most, I highly doubt anybody

>the only purpose for a career is to "get rich". What other reason is there for a career? If there was no financial incentive for most, I highly doubt anybody would waste the time learning how to be a lawyer, programmer, or doctor. People don't just go into a career hoping to make a menial wage and work 40-60 hours a week.

alfiedotwtf 5y ago
Most (if not all) programmers I personally know are in it because they love computers and programming, and they'd all agree that we're lucky to be doing what we love 9-5 (and then some) whilst getting paid better than average. I almost feel guilty I get paid to play with computers all day.
ixacto 5y ago
Because you are interested in what you are doing? I had no idea how much a developer or sysadmin made when I was 13 and started playing with FreeBSD and Debian...
jasbur 5y ago
I think what resonious is saying is that your particular job is unlikely to make you significantly wealthier than any others in your field. Don't make huge sacrifices unless you have a realistic expectation of abnormally huge returns.
sumanthvepa 5y ago
Much of what I do, I would have done even without the money. The money is just a means to allow me to do what it for the duration of my life.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
  It's very easy to say that when you're making more than the cost of living by a significant margin. Not so much when you've lived with meager wages. I love what I do, but I also wouldn't have switched careers if it didn't pay more than I made now. The years I've taken off my life from doing it would not have been worth it for an additional $500/month. If anything that coupled with the major inflation that's happened in the past two years, it wouldn't have even been worth it.
pertymcpert 5y ago
> What other reason is there for a career? A way to make a living doing what you love. I loved programming as a child/teenager. I wasn't paid then.
- mushbino 5y ago
  You also had someone providing for you and covering all of your costs. Once you leave the carefree comforts of childhood and join the rat race the rules change.
  - lanstin 5y ago
    Ones motivation need not change. “Do what you love and the money will follow” is not universally true, but it is pretty damn true for learning and making software.
  - pertymcpert 5y ago
    What's your point? The discussion we're having is whether anyone would be a programmer if they weren't getting paid well. Clearly many people would.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
  I love art and music. I'm pretty skilled in a variety of those fields. The reason I don't do them is because programming pays extraordinarily better and can let me have a more relaxed and enjoyable lifestyle as opposed to living in garbage tier slums.
  - pertymcpert 5y ago
    What does that have to do with anything? I think from the responses you've had to your comment you've now seen that you're in a minority here.
pjmlp 5y ago
Career is something imposed by companies where HR cannot phantom why people like to keep doing what they love, instead of being endless promoted until they aren't fit for the position.
- datavirtue 5y ago
  Yeah, this dynamic is what causes me to avoid big companies. As soon as you hire on you get attacked with career goals, assumptions that you want to move up (I'm senior so I already make enough money and have no interest in "moving up"), and being asked to do the litany of things required to move up. Maddening. Especially when you tell several of your bosses directly that you are good and that you already have the position and money you want. It just doesn't register and they keep trying to get you to tick off the boxes that will get you promoted. Figured they would be happy that someone was happy for once and didn't need to maintain them as they strive for promotion. I realized that they string everyone along with promises of career profession. And more than just being strung along, it's mainly a distraction for you to focus on while they overwork you on projects that get cancelled or otherwise don't matter.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Yeah, I share the feeling.
  - MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
    Some of us don't like to maintain. It keeps life interesting. I've been told by many people "Oh you'll get tired of it when you get older" but I'm tired of it now. However, the reason I don't stop is it's literally the only thing driving me to do anything in life but be another mouth breather waiting to die in their retirement center while their children grovel over who gets what in the inheritance.
rizzaxc 5y ago
I highly doubt most doctors' end goal is to get rich The world is cynical but not that depressing dude
- pjerem 5y ago
  I agree with you but it’s easy to not have this end goal when you are already rich just by doing your job.
  - rizzaxc 5y ago
    I dont follow. Do you mean doctors are rich so they dont have to care? Last I checked a doctor needs 10 years since high school to make any real money. A fresh grad in SV needs 4, sometimes 3. By the time the medical student can legally be called doctor, you and I are already making "obscene money" by their standard
    - pjerem 5y ago
      > Do you mean doctors are rich so they dont have to care? Where am I saying this ? I'm totally ok with "rich" doctors. I totally want the doctor to have its full mind caring about "me" and not how he'll have to pay for his debts. I'm just saying that it's easy for doctors not to care about money. Not that it's bad or that they are overpaid.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
  I'm not inferring here that if we don't pay doctors a lot nobody would be doctors. But what else would drive people to work 36 hour shifts, low to no pay, and put up with that for 10+ years? It's definitely not their character of wanting to help people. Otherwise the medical profession for doctors would be full of women because that is the #1 reason why any of them go into child care or being a teacher. Which if we look at the data, correlates to low wages. Greed is what compels people to do the difficult things in life. I highly doubt anybody would put up with what you do for med school if you're prospects of earnings was similar to that of a business analyst. Of which can get that job with an Associates Degree or less.
lanstin 5y ago
OMG, until like what Netscape IPO almost no programmers wanted or expected to get rich. It was about a job where they paid you to solve problems so interesting you would have contrived to work on them for free. And even now, I don’t understand why the response to “company will overwork me” is act with bad faith. Just take care of yourself, stop working before the long term costs to yourself your family and your life get too high. That P1 will still be there later. If you have worked for more than two years and not recognized them saying this is crucial is just how they talk, you aren’t as clever as you think. The job market for “can make computer programs” essentially guarantees you cannot be exploited without your consent. Just find you limits and protect them. It will work out. But you don’t need to not offer helpful advice or sketch out solutions for people. That sounds like you are burning down the fun parts of the job to avoid overwork. But the easier way to avoid overwork is to work less.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
  You do realize a career extends beyond programming right?
  - pertymcpert 5y ago
    You're the one who used it as an example. You've been proven wrong.

alfiedotwtf 5y ago

Most (if not all) programmers I personally know are in it because they love computers and programming, and they'd all agree that we're lucky to be doing what we love 9-5 (and then some) whilst getting paid better than average. I almost feel guilty I get paid to play with computers all day.

ixacto 5y ago

Because you are interested in what you are doing? I had no idea how much a developer or sysadmin made when I was 13 and started playing with FreeBSD and Debian...

jasbur 5y ago

I think what resonious is saying is that your particular job is unlikely to make you significantly wealthier than any others in your field. Don't make huge sacrifices unless you have a realistic expectation of abnormally huge returns.

sumanthvepa 5y ago

Much of what I do, I would have done even without the money. The money is just a means to allow me to do what it for the duration of my life.

MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
It's very easy to say that when you're making more than the cost of living by a significant margin. Not so much when you've lived with meager wages. I love what I do, but I also wouldn't have switched careers if it didn't pay more than I made now. The years I've taken off my life from doing it would not have been worth it for an additional $500/month. If anything that coupled with the major inflation that's happened in the past two years, it wouldn't have even been worth it.

pertymcpert 5y ago

> What other reason is there for a career? A way to make a living doing what you love. I loved programming as a child/teenager. I wasn't paid then.

mushbino 5y ago
You also had someone providing for you and covering all of your costs. Once you leave the carefree comforts of childhood and join the rat race the rules change.
- lanstin 5y ago
  Ones motivation need not change. “Do what you love and the money will follow” is not universally true, but it is pretty damn true for learning and making software.
- pertymcpert 5y ago
  What's your point? The discussion we're having is whether anyone would be a programmer if they weren't getting paid well. Clearly many people would.
MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
I love art and music. I'm pretty skilled in a variety of those fields. The reason I don't do them is because programming pays extraordinarily better and can let me have a more relaxed and enjoyable lifestyle as opposed to living in garbage tier slums.
- pertymcpert 5y ago
  What does that have to do with anything? I think from the responses you've had to your comment you've now seen that you're in a minority here.

pjmlp 5y ago

Career is something imposed by companies where HR cannot phantom why people like to keep doing what they love, instead of being endless promoted until they aren't fit for the position.

datavirtue 5y ago
Yeah, this dynamic is what causes me to avoid big companies. As soon as you hire on you get attacked with career goals, assumptions that you want to move up (I'm senior so I already make enough money and have no interest in "moving up"), and being asked to do the litany of things required to move up. Maddening. Especially when you tell several of your bosses directly that you are good and that you already have the position and money you want. It just doesn't register and they keep trying to get you to tick off the boxes that will get you promoted. Figured they would be happy that someone was happy for once and didn't need to maintain them as they strive for promotion. I realized that they string everyone along with promises of career profession. And more than just being strung along, it's mainly a distraction for you to focus on while they overwork you on projects that get cancelled or otherwise don't matter.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Yeah, I share the feeling.
- MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
  Some of us don't like to maintain. It keeps life interesting. I've been told by many people "Oh you'll get tired of it when you get older" but I'm tired of it now. However, the reason I don't stop is it's literally the only thing driving me to do anything in life but be another mouth breather waiting to die in their retirement center while their children grovel over who gets what in the inheritance.

rizzaxc 5y ago

I highly doubt most doctors' end goal is to get rich The world is cynical but not that depressing dude

pjerem 5y ago
I agree with you but it’s easy to not have this end goal when you are already rich just by doing your job.
- rizzaxc 5y ago
  I dont follow. Do you mean doctors are rich so they dont have to care? Last I checked a doctor needs 10 years since high school to make any real money. A fresh grad in SV needs 4, sometimes 3. By the time the medical student can legally be called doctor, you and I are already making "obscene money" by their standard
  - pjerem 5y ago
    > Do you mean doctors are rich so they dont have to care? Where am I saying this ? I'm totally ok with "rich" doctors. I totally want the doctor to have its full mind caring about "me" and not how he'll have to pay for his debts. I'm just saying that it's easy for doctors not to care about money. Not that it's bad or that they are overpaid.
MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
I'm not inferring here that if we don't pay doctors a lot nobody would be doctors. But what else would drive people to work 36 hour shifts, low to no pay, and put up with that for 10+ years? It's definitely not their character of wanting to help people. Otherwise the medical profession for doctors would be full of women because that is the #1 reason why any of them go into child care or being a teacher. Which if we look at the data, correlates to low wages. Greed is what compels people to do the difficult things in life. I highly doubt anybody would put up with what you do for med school if you're prospects of earnings was similar to that of a business analyst. Of which can get that job with an Associates Degree or less.

lanstin 5y ago

OMG, until like what Netscape IPO almost no programmers wanted or expected to get rich. It was about a job where they paid you to solve problems so interesting you would have contrived to work on them for free. And even now, I don’t understand why the response to “company will overwork me” is act with bad faith. Just take care of yourself, stop working before the long term costs to yourself your family and your life get too high. That P1 will still be there later. If you have worked for more than two years and not recognized them saying this is crucial is just how they talk, you aren’t as clever as you think. The job market for “can make computer programs” essentially guarantees you cannot be exploited without your consent. Just find you limits and protect them. It will work out. But you don’t need to not offer helpful advice or sketch out solutions for people. That sounds like you are burning down the fun parts of the job to avoid overwork. But the easier way to avoid overwork is to work less.

MeinBlutIstBlau 5y ago
You do realize a career extends beyond programming right?
- pertymcpert 5y ago
  You're the one who used it as an example. You've been proven wrong.