3 ms·

> and at least 40% of my time would still be dev work that's not management, that's a leadership position. if in doubt when they offer you a management positi

> and at least 40% of my time would still be dev work that's not management, that's a leadership position. if in doubt when they offer you a management position ask what the budget for the role is, if it's none, you'd be just either a secretary doing the grunt work for some other real manager (nowadays known as "middle management") or a lead they gave a sounding title in lieu of the dangling carrot.

iaw 5y ago
If it's titled as management at the current company it looks like management to the next company. Your larger point is true but that title can be leveraged into a number of positions that are 'real' management so I wouldn't discount it.
- avereveard 5y ago
  chances are the other company knows as well what's up and upholds the veil, if your background is in the field and you haven't had any management focused education at start or on top, your resume will give you away.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    I have a business admin minor. If I knew minors were totally worthless then I wouldn't have wasted my time on it. My company cared more about me getting a CFA Foundations cert eventhough I said it was 99% stuff I learnt in my minor. The manager was shocked when I got a 95%+ 2 days later (most of them study for weeks or months). Hey, I tried to tell you it was a waste of time and money, but I guess I need an MBA from Stanford or Wharton for people to listen to me...
    - avereveard 5y ago
      Yep. I've by now driven three projects trough successful exits, but when I apply to leadership roles I get talked down because I'm too young and don't "look the part", so to say. The whole hiring and human resource management stack is in shambles, built out of century outdated concepts and prejudices.
      - giantg2 5y ago
        "built out of century outdated concepts and prejudices." Funny thing is, the opposite can be simultaneously true. My company makes a big deal about diversity. I look the part etc, but I don't fit any of their diversity metrics. So you can't fit the stereotype too closely or you're hurting their metrics, but you also can't be too "out there". You have to fit in that narrow band of helping them meet their metrics while also towing the line enough to preserve the "culture".
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  You need to understand and speak the language of managers. If you are manager who never has had to deal with budgets the interviewers will quickly find that out. We probably need leetcode for managers. Or an MBA will help.
giantg2 5y ago
"you'd be just either a secretary doing the grunt work for some other real manager (nowadays known as "middle management") or a lead they gave a sounding title in lieu of the dangling carrot." Yep, exactly what's going on.
spaetzleesser 5y ago
"ask what the budget for the role is" That's an important one. In one company I was "director" for 15 people but had no say in salary or hiring decisions. This gets really frustrating after a while.

iaw 5y ago

If it's titled as management at the current company it looks like management to the next company. Your larger point is true but that title can be leveraged into a number of positions that are 'real' management so I wouldn't discount it.

avereveard 5y ago
chances are the other company knows as well what's up and upholds the veil, if your background is in the field and you haven't had any management focused education at start or on top, your resume will give you away.
- giantg2 5y ago
  I have a business admin minor. If I knew minors were totally worthless then I wouldn't have wasted my time on it. My company cared more about me getting a CFA Foundations cert eventhough I said it was 99% stuff I learnt in my minor. The manager was shocked when I got a 95%+ 2 days later (most of them study for weeks or months). Hey, I tried to tell you it was a waste of time and money, but I guess I need an MBA from Stanford or Wharton for people to listen to me...
  - avereveard 5y ago
    Yep. I've by now driven three projects trough successful exits, but when I apply to leadership roles I get talked down because I'm too young and don't "look the part", so to say. The whole hiring and human resource management stack is in shambles, built out of century outdated concepts and prejudices.
    - giantg2 5y ago
      "built out of century outdated concepts and prejudices." Funny thing is, the opposite can be simultaneously true. My company makes a big deal about diversity. I look the part etc, but I don't fit any of their diversity metrics. So you can't fit the stereotype too closely or you're hurting their metrics, but you also can't be too "out there". You have to fit in that narrow band of helping them meet their metrics while also towing the line enough to preserve the "culture".
spaetzleesser 5y ago
You need to understand and speak the language of managers. If you are manager who never has had to deal with budgets the interviewers will quickly find that out. We probably need leetcode for managers. Or an MBA will help.

giantg2 5y ago

"you'd be just either a secretary doing the grunt work for some other real manager (nowadays known as "middle management") or a lead they gave a sounding title in lieu of the dangling carrot." Yep, exactly what's going on.

spaetzleesser 5y ago

"ask what the budget for the role is" That's an important one. In one company I was "director" for 15 people but had no say in salary or hiring decisions. This gets really frustrating after a while.