4 ms·

The screen is a separate ribbon cable from the lidar camera, this is just plain anti-right to repair. Now it seems like apple is checksuming all hardware again

by chews 5y ago

The screen is a separate ribbon cable from the lidar camera, this is just plain anti-right to repair. Now it seems like apple is checksuming all hardware against the original device. This is bad for people.

sa1 5y ago
Yeah, I agree.
progbits 5y ago
Remember back when there were those posts about camera swap breaking face id all the apologists came out defending it, saying all the repair concerns about batteries/screens/... were slippery slope fear mongering? Yeah... It is not slippery slope, it is slowly boiling the frog.
- chews 5y ago
  This frog was in the pot on day one, I've been at this since it was just an aluminum and plastic iPhone. Apple's engineering culture in non inclusive of those not working at Apple. Period. They did the world a solid with LLVM, not argument there, but their stance changes with time and soon enough that may not be true for their other software teams, ala Swift on other platforms, but rest assured... once there is a market they capture it. By theft of implementation, or future breaking changes to the api, or changing the hardware to make it non-replaceable. Your newest Macbook is a fancy iPad with a keyboard and the ability to sideload software. Apple allways takes their ball home.
FDSGSG 5y ago
Apple probably did not design it this way to make repairs difficult, but rather because it simply worked for them. Why should they need to consider independent repair shops? I agree that it's not acceptable for Apple to deliberately sabotage such repairs, but I wouldn't assume that this is deliberate without evidence. I think it's perfectly okay for Apple to make products which are too complicated for most independent repair shops to fix, just like I think it's okay for Ferrari and Lamborghini to do the same. Mandating otherwise would be anti-consumer.
- judge2020 5y ago
  That's not what's at problem here. It's like how you can't swap parts of the logic board in case they fail (even if they rarely do) because of the design - I don't think many people will be mad at Apple for that. This is where two screens from brand new iPhone 13's can't be swapped without Face ID (which is no longer even attached to the screen) no longer working. Now, this might not be deliberate, especially given the setting app's screen warning doesn't say anything about Face ID being disabled, but it's not a good sign.
  - FDSGSG 5y ago
    > which is no longer even attached to the screen It actually is. As was better explained by another HN user https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28663927 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28663927 I have a really hard time seeing this as any different than the example you gave regarding logic boards.
- simion314 5y ago
  >I think it's perfectly okay for Apple to make products which are too complicated for most independent repair shops to fix Should not be impossible for a third party to replace a component, if this would be legal for cars we would have been screwed even hard with replacement parts and fixes costs. Imagine the world where you could only replace a Ford windshield or mirror only with a new original Ford(not even recycled one) and you have to have the fix done only in the big city at the Ford official repair shop. Though this days a there is a car company around that wants to be the Apple of cars, hopefully the laws will not get weeker but stronger.
  - FDSGSG 5y ago
    >Should not be impossible for a third party to replace a component Well, it's not. It's just hard. >if this would be legal for cars we would have been screwed even hard with replacement parts and fixes costs. I don't think you have worked with modern cars, situations like the Face ID issue here are perfectly normal. Try to do an engine swap in a new car, properly installing the engine does not get you a working car.
zsmi 5y ago
From the article we know they are not checksumming all hardware agains the original device as they were able to change some assemblies. Really what this means is the sensor assembly moved into the screen assembly [1] and the youtuber didn't investigate further. If the sensor changes this breaks the chain of trust for FaceID [2] and you want the system to stop working because someone, for good or bad, is tampering with it. [1] https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+13+Pro+Teardown/144928 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+13+Pro+Teardown/14492... See step 3. Note, the screen and sensor assembly might not necessarily be bound together. [2] https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1902/en_US/apple-platform-security-guide.pdf https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1902/en_US/app...
- judge2020 5y ago
  From step 4's second image[0], three of the components (maybe dot projector, IR, and Camera) are in the main housing. The YouTuber shows that Face ID works even if the 'sensor assembly' is unplugged[1]. 0: https://guide-images.cdn.ifixit.com/igi/QtDRKJPM5CKm31ki.huge https://guide-images.cdn.ifixit.com/igi/QtDRKJPM5CKm31ki.hug... 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28663852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28663852

by chews 5y ago

sa1 5y ago

Yeah, I agree.

progbits 5y ago

Remember back when there were those posts about camera swap breaking face id all the apologists came out defending it, saying all the repair concerns about batteries/screens/... were slippery slope fear mongering? Yeah... It is not slippery slope, it is slowly boiling the frog.

chews 5y ago
This frog was in the pot on day one, I've been at this since it was just an aluminum and plastic iPhone. Apple's engineering culture in non inclusive of those not working at Apple. Period. They did the world a solid with LLVM, not argument there, but their stance changes with time and soon enough that may not be true for their other software teams, ala Swift on other platforms, but rest assured... once there is a market they capture it. By theft of implementation, or future breaking changes to the api, or changing the hardware to make it non-replaceable. Your newest Macbook is a fancy iPad with a keyboard and the ability to sideload software. Apple allways takes their ball home.

FDSGSG 5y ago

Apple probably did not design it this way to make repairs difficult, but rather because it simply worked for them. Why should they need to consider independent repair shops? I agree that it's not acceptable for Apple to deliberately sabotage such repairs, but I wouldn't assume that this is deliberate without evidence. I think it's perfectly okay for Apple to make products which are too complicated for most independent repair shops to fix, just like I think it's okay for Ferrari and Lamborghini to do the same. Mandating otherwise would be anti-consumer.

judge2020 5y ago
That's not what's at problem here. It's like how you can't swap parts of the logic board in case they fail (even if they rarely do) because of the design - I don't think many people will be mad at Apple for that. This is where two screens from brand new iPhone 13's can't be swapped without Face ID (which is no longer even attached to the screen) no longer working. Now, this might not be deliberate, especially given the setting app's screen warning doesn't say anything about Face ID being disabled, but it's not a good sign.
- FDSGSG 5y ago
  > which is no longer even attached to the screen It actually is. As was better explained by another HN user https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28663927 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28663927 I have a really hard time seeing this as any different than the example you gave regarding logic boards.
simion314 5y ago
>I think it's perfectly okay for Apple to make products which are too complicated for most independent repair shops to fix Should not be impossible for a third party to replace a component, if this would be legal for cars we would have been screwed even hard with replacement parts and fixes costs. Imagine the world where you could only replace a Ford windshield or mirror only with a new original Ford(not even recycled one) and you have to have the fix done only in the big city at the Ford official repair shop. Though this days a there is a car company around that wants to be the Apple of cars, hopefully the laws will not get weeker but stronger.
- FDSGSG 5y ago
  >Should not be impossible for a third party to replace a component Well, it's not. It's just hard. >if this would be legal for cars we would have been screwed even hard with replacement parts and fixes costs. I don't think you have worked with modern cars, situations like the Face ID issue here are perfectly normal. Try to do an engine swap in a new car, properly installing the engine does not get you a working car.

zsmi 5y ago

From the article we know they are not checksumming all hardware agains the original device as they were able to change some assemblies. Really what this means is the sensor assembly moved into the screen assembly [1] and the youtuber didn't investigate further. If the sensor changes this breaks the chain of trust for FaceID [2] and you want the system to stop working because someone, for good or bad, is tampering with it. [1] https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+13+Pro+Teardown/144928 https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone+13+Pro+Teardown/14492... See step 3. Note, the screen and sensor assembly might not necessarily be bound together. [2] https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1902/en_US/apple-platform-security-guide.pdf https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/1000/MA1902/en_US/app...

judge2020 5y ago
From step 4's second image[0], three of the components (maybe dot projector, IR, and Camera) are in the main housing. The YouTuber shows that Face ID works even if the 'sensor assembly' is unplugged[1]. 0: https://guide-images.cdn.ifixit.com/igi/QtDRKJPM5CKm31ki.huge https://guide-images.cdn.ifixit.com/igi/QtDRKJPM5CKm31ki.hug... 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28663852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28663852