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There are numerous countries in the world that have becomes democracies inspite of the blundering and corruption of the powers that be in the west. Dont use the

There are numerous countries in the world that have becomes democracies inspite of the blundering and corruption of the powers that be in the west. Dont use the US and its dysfunction as an excuse please.

boomboomsubban 5y ago
When US dysfunction includes things like regime change and election tampering, it can definitely be used as an excuse. Yes, some countries have independently produced pro-Western democracies, but if they have enough value and start electing anti-Western leaders their democracy will become a target of Western attack. See the ~2002 US backed coup attempt against Hugo Chavez, or the recent Morales elections.
pphysch 5y ago
Can you list some them? Bonus points if outside Western Europe.
- curiousgal 5y ago
  Tunisia.
  - fartingflamingo 5y ago
    Not anymore unfortunately [0]. [0] https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/tunisians-protest-against-presidents-power-grab-opposition-deepens-2021-09-26/ https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/tunisians-protest-again...
    - curiousgal 5y ago
      See that's the thing, it's not that simple. The ruling party which controlled the parliament for a few years is corrupt. The president, who was democratically elected by the majority of the people, used the constitution to suspend said parliament, with the support of the people. It's definitely an unorthodox move but it relates to one of democracy's limitations; what could be done when an elected party represents its own interests and not the people's?
      - fartingflamingo 5y ago
        Lots of factors could be at play indeed. I'm certainly not an expert, but if I read correctly, the man has disbanded parliament and ruled by decree since two months, publicly announcing his disregard for the constitution. To me, that does not count as democratic anymore.
- asdff 5y ago
  The former yugoslavia
- refurb 5y ago
  Taiwan, South Korea, Japan.
  - pphysch 5y ago
    Those are all essentially client states of USA, dependent on USA as security provider. Some even argue they are occupied.
    - refurb 5y ago
      Even if true, that’s irrelevant to the question asked?
      - pphysch 5y ago
        I disagree. You cannot say a country is democratic "despite" thirty thousand US soldiers camping inside with little to no accountability.
pessimizer 5y ago
I've never heard of those, but I've heard of the countries whose dictators we propped up and helped (often by literally sending lists of names) to exterminate their secular opposition. Then when they have a revolution because the degree of crushing desperation of the populace exceeded the strength of internal policing, the only leaders left are religious, thereby turning the country into a theocracy.

boomboomsubban 5y ago

When US dysfunction includes things like regime change and election tampering, it can definitely be used as an excuse. Yes, some countries have independently produced pro-Western democracies, but if they have enough value and start electing anti-Western leaders their democracy will become a target of Western attack. See the ~2002 US backed coup attempt against Hugo Chavez, or the recent Morales elections.

pphysch 5y ago

Can you list some them? Bonus points if outside Western Europe.

curiousgal 5y ago
Tunisia.
- fartingflamingo 5y ago
  Not anymore unfortunately [0]. [0] https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/tunisians-protest-against-presidents-power-grab-opposition-deepens-2021-09-26/ https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/tunisians-protest-again...
  - curiousgal 5y ago
    See that's the thing, it's not that simple. The ruling party which controlled the parliament for a few years is corrupt. The president, who was democratically elected by the majority of the people, used the constitution to suspend said parliament, with the support of the people. It's definitely an unorthodox move but it relates to one of democracy's limitations; what could be done when an elected party represents its own interests and not the people's?
    - fartingflamingo 5y ago
      Lots of factors could be at play indeed. I'm certainly not an expert, but if I read correctly, the man has disbanded parliament and ruled by decree since two months, publicly announcing his disregard for the constitution. To me, that does not count as democratic anymore.
asdff 5y ago
The former yugoslavia
refurb 5y ago
Taiwan, South Korea, Japan.
- pphysch 5y ago
  Those are all essentially client states of USA, dependent on USA as security provider. Some even argue they are occupied.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Even if true, that’s irrelevant to the question asked?
    - pphysch 5y ago
      I disagree. You cannot say a country is democratic "despite" thirty thousand US soldiers camping inside with little to no accountability.

pessimizer 5y ago

I've never heard of those, but I've heard of the countries whose dictators we propped up and helped (often by literally sending lists of names) to exterminate their secular opposition. Then when they have a revolution because the degree of crushing desperation of the populace exceeded the strength of internal policing, the only leaders left are religious, thereby turning the country into a theocracy.