5 ms·

Maybe if the American education system wasn't horrible and getting worse, there would be a chance that the millions of unhappy American workers could get in on

by Grakel 5y ago

Maybe if the American education system wasn't horrible and getting worse, there would be a chance that the millions of unhappy American workers could get in on these job openings. Too many feelings and coddling, no rigor at all.

VictorPath 5y ago
There is too much coddling of children in kindergarten in American schools. They should be learning the basis of non-abelian groups and wave function collapse, not finger painting and talking about their feelings. Other states should be like Mississippi and bring back corporal punishment for naughty students.
- syshum 5y ago
  Can we just agree that both extreme are bad. Hitting kids with rulers is bad Having Safe Spaces where people talk only about micro aggression, participation trophies, and how everything is a systemic *ist of some kind is also bad... We can have an education system free from both
  - Grakel 5y ago
    Completely agree. Let's just learn.
- stadium 5y ago
  If I have to Google to understand what type of elementary school education you are selling, you are clearly not qualified to know what kindergartners should or shouldn't be learning about.
- commoner 5y ago
  Physical punishment worsens behavior in children, and overwhelmingly harms children. > Physical punishment is increasingly viewed as a form of violence that harms children. This narrative review summarises the findings of 69 prospective longitudinal studies to inform practitioners and policy makers about physical punishment's outcomes. Our review identified seven key themes. First, physical punishment consistently predicts increases in child behaviour problems over time. Second, physical punishment is not associated with positive outcomes over time. Third, physical punishment increases the risk of involvement with child protective services. Fourth, the only evidence of children eliciting physical punishment is for externalising behaviour. Fifth, physical punishment predicts worsening behaviour over time in quasi-experimental studies. Sixth, associations between physical punishment and detrimental child outcomes are robust across child and parent characteristics. Finally, there is some evidence of a dose–response relationship. The consistency of these findings indicates that physical punishment is harmful to children and that policy remedies are warranted. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00582-1/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...
echelon 5y ago
America has a small population relative to China, India, and the whole EU. America has giant tech and science industries and needs lots of workers to remain competitive. We're feeding these industries with lots of talent that is born here, but raising children has become increasingly complicated with the eroding middle class and desire to have fewer babies. Parents don't have support. It's not a fun or rewarding job, especially in a world where you can turn Netflix or TikTok on for a quick dopamine hit and plan on being childless. We can fill this need with immigration. We don't need less of it, we need more. These positions will be filled anyway, and if it happens abroad that will lower American competitiveness. Not bad for the world. Just stating this from America's perspective. But you also pointed to a problem that we should address domestically: making child rearing easier and desirable. We could provide assistance (time off, early childhood caregiving) and tax incentives. I also think a pragmatic, though inequitable, approach to developmental incentives would help. Tax breaks for parents or "fun money" for children who are involved in extracurriculars: STEM, music/arts, clubs, "leadership", etc. Kids would love to earn a salary to buy toys and games. Pay them a small stipend to follow an academic or artistic interest. Or be involved in a club of some kind. It doesn't have to be much of a monetary reward: $50/month or even less. It won't matter for rich kids, but will make a world of difference for the underprivileged.
- syshum 5y ago
  >>We're feeding these industries with lots of talent that is born here Are we though? I am not seeing it. The education system, even universities are still often behind the times, and getting a CS degree or CIT degree is not going to help you much in a modern company (or even a legacy company) the skills gap for recent graduates is huge, though personally I am somewhat glad for this because we need to get away from the system of credentials, at least university credentials.
- Grakel 5y ago
  I agree with a lot of your points, but I think a good education system would be able to train huge amounts of Americans to do whatever work was needed. Along with the parenting incentives you mention. We don't need more immigrants, we don't need a much larger population. There's a lot of room in this country, and that's a good thing. Some people want to densify everything.
stadium 5y ago
There are so many free or low cost resources to learn tech skills. Time is the only investment needed. I'd argue that some of the best software engineers slash developers I have worked with came from non-cs backgrounds like engineering or business. They learned on the job, after hours on their own time, or in a bootcamp program. And it's more pleasant to work with people that have a sense of humility and some empathy so I'm all for the feelings education. Here are a couple examples of free resources. Google "{my city or state} free coding bootcamp" and there are tons more. https://adadevelopersacademy.org/ https://adadevelopersacademy.org/ https://www.builtinchicago.org/2020/11/12/chicago-coding-temple-black-latinx-workforce-training https://www.builtinchicago.org/2020/11/12/chicago-coding-tem...
- mkr-hn 5y ago
  How do you identify which courses/bootcamps are worth the time and a good fit if you don't already have skills that obviate the need for the training? It's a catch-22. Sifting through reviews is a skillset on its own, so that's no help. The abundance of options only compounds the problem.
  - stadium 5y ago
    Just like anything else in life. Ask around, pick up the phone, send an email requesting more info, ask for references. And if you are in a position to share time or money, find and organization that provides these services and help them with outreach or mentorship. It's something within reach for a lot of folks already in tech. In minority communities with first generation immigrants they may not know that services like these exist. Try to spread the word within those communities too through local community groups.
coffeefirst 5y ago
People say this a lot, but it isn't true. What Americans schools are is inconsistent. There's ~14,000 different public school systems that vary wildly from place to place. Claims about American schools, good or bad, are almost always either about a specific place or kind of place.

by Grakel 5y ago

VictorPath 5y ago

There is too much coddling of children in kindergarten in American schools. They should be learning the basis of non-abelian groups and wave function collapse, not finger painting and talking about their feelings. Other states should be like Mississippi and bring back corporal punishment for naughty students.

syshum 5y ago
Can we just agree that both extreme are bad. Hitting kids with rulers is bad Having Safe Spaces where people talk only about micro aggression, participation trophies, and how everything is a systemic *ist of some kind is also bad... We can have an education system free from both
- Grakel 5y ago
  Completely agree. Let's just learn.
stadium 5y ago
If I have to Google to understand what type of elementary school education you are selling, you are clearly not qualified to know what kindergartners should or shouldn't be learning about.
commoner 5y ago
Physical punishment worsens behavior in children, and overwhelmingly harms children. > Physical punishment is increasingly viewed as a form of violence that harms children. This narrative review summarises the findings of 69 prospective longitudinal studies to inform practitioners and policy makers about physical punishment's outcomes. Our review identified seven key themes. First, physical punishment consistently predicts increases in child behaviour problems over time. Second, physical punishment is not associated with positive outcomes over time. Third, physical punishment increases the risk of involvement with child protective services. Fourth, the only evidence of children eliciting physical punishment is for externalising behaviour. Fifth, physical punishment predicts worsening behaviour over time in quasi-experimental studies. Sixth, associations between physical punishment and detrimental child outcomes are robust across child and parent characteristics. Finally, there is some evidence of a dose–response relationship. The consistency of these findings indicates that physical punishment is harmful to children and that policy remedies are warranted. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00582-1/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

echelon 5y ago

America has a small population relative to China, India, and the whole EU. America has giant tech and science industries and needs lots of workers to remain competitive. We're feeding these industries with lots of talent that is born here, but raising children has become increasingly complicated with the eroding middle class and desire to have fewer babies. Parents don't have support. It's not a fun or rewarding job, especially in a world where you can turn Netflix or TikTok on for a quick dopamine hit and plan on being childless. We can fill this need with immigration. We don't need less of it, we need more. These positions will be filled anyway, and if it happens abroad that will lower American competitiveness. Not bad for the world. Just stating this from America's perspective. But you also pointed to a problem that we should address domestically: making child rearing easier and desirable. We could provide assistance (time off, early childhood caregiving) and tax incentives. I also think a pragmatic, though inequitable, approach to developmental incentives would help. Tax breaks for parents or "fun money" for children who are involved in extracurriculars: STEM, music/arts, clubs, "leadership", etc. Kids would love to earn a salary to buy toys and games. Pay them a small stipend to follow an academic or artistic interest. Or be involved in a club of some kind. It doesn't have to be much of a monetary reward: $50/month or even less. It won't matter for rich kids, but will make a world of difference for the underprivileged.

syshum 5y ago
>>We're feeding these industries with lots of talent that is born here Are we though? I am not seeing it. The education system, even universities are still often behind the times, and getting a CS degree or CIT degree is not going to help you much in a modern company (or even a legacy company) the skills gap for recent graduates is huge, though personally I am somewhat glad for this because we need to get away from the system of credentials, at least university credentials.
Grakel 5y ago
I agree with a lot of your points, but I think a good education system would be able to train huge amounts of Americans to do whatever work was needed. Along with the parenting incentives you mention. We don't need more immigrants, we don't need a much larger population. There's a lot of room in this country, and that's a good thing. Some people want to densify everything.

stadium 5y ago

There are so many free or low cost resources to learn tech skills. Time is the only investment needed. I'd argue that some of the best software engineers slash developers I have worked with came from non-cs backgrounds like engineering or business. They learned on the job, after hours on their own time, or in a bootcamp program. And it's more pleasant to work with people that have a sense of humility and some empathy so I'm all for the feelings education. Here are a couple examples of free resources. Google "{my city or state} free coding bootcamp" and there are tons more. https://adadevelopersacademy.org/ https://adadevelopersacademy.org/ https://www.builtinchicago.org/2020/11/12/chicago-coding-temple-black-latinx-workforce-training https://www.builtinchicago.org/2020/11/12/chicago-coding-tem...

mkr-hn 5y ago
How do you identify which courses/bootcamps are worth the time and a good fit if you don't already have skills that obviate the need for the training? It's a catch-22. Sifting through reviews is a skillset on its own, so that's no help. The abundance of options only compounds the problem.
- stadium 5y ago
  Just like anything else in life. Ask around, pick up the phone, send an email requesting more info, ask for references. And if you are in a position to share time or money, find and organization that provides these services and help them with outreach or mentorship. It's something within reach for a lot of folks already in tech. In minority communities with first generation immigrants they may not know that services like these exist. Try to spread the word within those communities too through local community groups.

coffeefirst 5y ago

People say this a lot, but it isn't true. What Americans schools are is inconsistent. There's ~14,000 different public school systems that vary wildly from place to place. Claims about American schools, good or bad, are almost always either about a specific place or kind of place.