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I have a feeling that your response, just like OP's is an emotional one, based on experiences you've had in life. In my 50 years on earth, I've witnessed all 4

by qolop 5y ago

I have a feeling that your response, just like OP's is an emotional one, based on experiences you've had in life. In my 50 years on earth, I've witnessed all 4 kinds of marriages. 1. Unhappy couple that stayed together and worked out their problems 2. Unhappy couple that stayed together and remained miserable 3. Unhappy couple that split and are happy with their decision 4. Unhappy couple that split and now regret having done that You cannot deny that there's beauty in 1, and I think when you made your comment number 2 is probably what was going through your mind. In any case I did connect with OPs comment, and do think that things have value because they last long. People don't optimize for happiness in life, they optimize for other abstract concepts like fulfillment and purpose etc. Marriage and family can give a great sense of purpose and more fulfillment than any fleeting romance (or selfish decision-making). Life is long and full of ups and downs, marriage (just like religion and children) can serve as a great anchor point.

kace91 5y ago
My post wasn't really shaped by any particular experience, but I did have 2 in mind, as well as 3; not a specific case in mind, but more a point that they do exist, and that they aren't any less likely or worth considering. I think that all four options are definitely possible, but that people have a bias for maintaining their circle of comfort, and justify that fear of the unknown. As for >You cannot deny that there's beauty in 1 I do deny it; or to be clear, I think it is a story that we've been conditioned to prefer over the others, with sometimes disastrous results for everyone involved. I see the same beauty in any other option that ends up with a person living a great life they don't regret. I think we'd have a better world if people focused on finding their best possible life without a notion that this choice is the default, more likely option for a live well lived.
- jeremie 5y ago
  > I do deny it; or to be clear, I think it is a story that we've been conditioned to prefer over the others Speaking personally, and perhaps it is indeed my conditioning, but at 25+ years of marriage I am living that beauty in 1 every day and I know without a doubt it has led me to my best possible life.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    Also speaking personally, I know more divorced couples than married couples, and have seen a married partner (who has a child) cheat on their spouse for going on a decade “because it’s the path of least resistance.” Also saw someone during a divorce light $100k on fire (from combined assets) in lawyer fees just to spite the other person (who had exhausted all options in attempting to repair the relationship before asking for the divorce). Everyone is winging it, and the only beauty is in finding happiness while causing the least harm to others (imho). Do the best you can with the information you have, maybe it works out, maybe it doesn’t.
  - kace91 5y ago
    I don't mean to devalue your experience, nor imply that it is somehow less valid due to it happening to be our society's default "happy ending", for clarification. If the default happens to work for you, that's awesome, and in fact it's probably what will work for most people - otherwise it wouldn't be the default. I'm just against considering alternative ways of finding happiness or purpose as consolation prizes, bittersweet stories, or somehow less valuable or beautiful than others. There's effort in keeping a marriage working for decades; there's also effort in daring to leave an unhappy comfort zone to find better ways, or simply to learn to live life in your own terms if "the one" never appears for you.
- cousin_it 5y ago
  Marriage is a mutual help commitment. A world with strong mutual help commitments is better than a world where people abandon each other at the first difficulty. So I try to make that world a reality through my actions. It's partly prosocial, partly for my wife and kids' sake, and partly for my own.
baumandm 5y ago
IMHO the issue is that society tells couples that 1 is the ideal outcome, creating plenty of 2s who believe they will eventually become 1s if they just keep trying. Some of those couples might be happier as 3s. I believe both 1 and 3 are preferable to 2 or 4, so I don't find this trope particularly helpful. It doesn't really matter if 1 is best or not, since it's not going to be possible for everyone.

by qolop 5y ago

kace91 5y ago

My post wasn't really shaped by any particular experience, but I did have 2 in mind, as well as 3; not a specific case in mind, but more a point that they do exist, and that they aren't any less likely or worth considering. I think that all four options are definitely possible, but that people have a bias for maintaining their circle of comfort, and justify that fear of the unknown. As for >You cannot deny that there's beauty in 1 I do deny it; or to be clear, I think it is a story that we've been conditioned to prefer over the others, with sometimes disastrous results for everyone involved. I see the same beauty in any other option that ends up with a person living a great life they don't regret. I think we'd have a better world if people focused on finding their best possible life without a notion that this choice is the default, more likely option for a live well lived.

jeremie 5y ago
> I do deny it; or to be clear, I think it is a story that we've been conditioned to prefer over the others Speaking personally, and perhaps it is indeed my conditioning, but at 25+ years of marriage I am living that beauty in 1 every day and I know without a doubt it has led me to my best possible life.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Also speaking personally, I know more divorced couples than married couples, and have seen a married partner (who has a child) cheat on their spouse for going on a decade “because it’s the path of least resistance.” Also saw someone during a divorce light $100k on fire (from combined assets) in lawyer fees just to spite the other person (who had exhausted all options in attempting to repair the relationship before asking for the divorce). Everyone is winging it, and the only beauty is in finding happiness while causing the least harm to others (imho). Do the best you can with the information you have, maybe it works out, maybe it doesn’t.
- kace91 5y ago
  I don't mean to devalue your experience, nor imply that it is somehow less valid due to it happening to be our society's default "happy ending", for clarification. If the default happens to work for you, that's awesome, and in fact it's probably what will work for most people - otherwise it wouldn't be the default. I'm just against considering alternative ways of finding happiness or purpose as consolation prizes, bittersweet stories, or somehow less valuable or beautiful than others. There's effort in keeping a marriage working for decades; there's also effort in daring to leave an unhappy comfort zone to find better ways, or simply to learn to live life in your own terms if "the one" never appears for you.
cousin_it 5y ago
Marriage is a mutual help commitment. A world with strong mutual help commitments is better than a world where people abandon each other at the first difficulty. So I try to make that world a reality through my actions. It's partly prosocial, partly for my wife and kids' sake, and partly for my own.

baumandm 5y ago

IMHO the issue is that society tells couples that 1 is the ideal outcome, creating plenty of 2s who believe they will eventually become 1s if they just keep trying. Some of those couples might be happier as 3s. I believe both 1 and 3 are preferable to 2 or 4, so I don't find this trope particularly helpful. It doesn't really matter if 1 is best or not, since it's not going to be possible for everyone.