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I think the title is misleading. The way I understand the article is that in 2030 if your vehicle is autonomous then it has to be 0 emission but I don't think i

I think the title is misleading. The way I understand the article is that in 2030 if your vehicle is autonomous then it has to be 0 emission but I don't think it implies that all vehicles must be autonomous.

mikepurvis 5y ago
Lots of us would like to see more ambitious targets across the whole fleet, but I can understand targeting autonomous vehicles in particular because a) they're new anyway, and b) there's a somewhat legit fear of people doing ridiculous stuff like having their vehicle just circle the block all day rather than find itself a parking space. Obviously, a behaviour like that would have a lot more negative externalities than just the emissions side of it, but at least this way you ensure that if millions of autonomous vehicles are tooling around empty, they're at least not polluting while doing so.
- jmnicolas 5y ago
  I have read somewhere that about 50% of a vehicle emissions are from the tires and the breaks, so we're still far from 0 emissions even with an EV. In your scenario the idiot that let his vehicle circle the block all day would still have to pay for breaks, tires and electricity. And judging by the inflation trajectory since last year, I'm not sure many of us will be able to afford this kind of waste in 2030. But I don't think we will get level 5 autonomy by 2030 anyway (if ever).
  - SECProto 5y ago
    A stat like that would be referring to particulate emissions, not CO2 emissions
    - jmnicolas 5y ago
      I wasn't referring to CO2: breaks and tires emit particulates due to wear.
      - SECProto 5y ago
        Right, but the article is about greenhouse gas emissions (CO2 and equiv), so I was offering clarity. Particulate emissions don't have global warming potential aren't terribly relevant in the context.
  - snovv_crash 5y ago
    EVs have a fraction of the brake dust due to regenerative braking. Tyres clearly need work though.
  - mnahkies 5y ago
    As far as I understand it ~50% of emissions occur during manufacture. Unfortunately this won't be solved by EV
    - SECProto 5y ago
      Addressing climate change is a wide problem, every branch needs to be addressed: - switching to EV will eliminate tailpipe emissions (up to 50% per your number, grid dependent) - greening the grid will reduce more (reduce per-km emissions, as well as reduce manufacturing emissions) - Hydrogen reduced steel will reduce remaining manufacturing emissions All of these combined have to happen to get to zero, not just one or the other.
  - csunbird 5y ago
    I think, Tesla claims that the brakes will last lifetime for the vehicle, as the regenerative braking is very aggressive and regular brakes should not be used that much.
- akira2501 5y ago
  With the complete lack of competent and high quality public transportation options in California, I'm not sure "targeting the fleet" would be where I spend most of my effort. Any vehicle that is tooling around empty is polluting. You've just moved the pollution from the vehicle to whatever source is powering the grid. Even if it was fully renewable that still would not a good excuse to entirely ignore efficiency in these "full vehicle for a single rider" transportation options.
wolverine876 5y ago
"California requires autonomous vehicles to be zero-emission by 2030" seems more accurate".
- zsmi 5y ago
  "California requires autonomous vehicles that meet SAE's level 3 definition or higher to be zero-emission by 2030" seems more accurate".
  - sharken 5y ago
    And sensible too. The general public has a different idea of what autonomous means. Level 5 autonomous vehicles are not even guaranteed to appear as early as 2030.
LinuxBender 5y ago
The article is confusing. Here [1] is the actual bill and it makes more sense. [1] - https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220SB500 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml...

mikepurvis 5y ago

Lots of us would like to see more ambitious targets across the whole fleet, but I can understand targeting autonomous vehicles in particular because a) they're new anyway, and b) there's a somewhat legit fear of people doing ridiculous stuff like having their vehicle just circle the block all day rather than find itself a parking space. Obviously, a behaviour like that would have a lot more negative externalities than just the emissions side of it, but at least this way you ensure that if millions of autonomous vehicles are tooling around empty, they're at least not polluting while doing so.

jmnicolas 5y ago
I have read somewhere that about 50% of a vehicle emissions are from the tires and the breaks, so we're still far from 0 emissions even with an EV. In your scenario the idiot that let his vehicle circle the block all day would still have to pay for breaks, tires and electricity. And judging by the inflation trajectory since last year, I'm not sure many of us will be able to afford this kind of waste in 2030. But I don't think we will get level 5 autonomy by 2030 anyway (if ever).
- SECProto 5y ago
  A stat like that would be referring to particulate emissions, not CO2 emissions
  - jmnicolas 5y ago
    I wasn't referring to CO2: breaks and tires emit particulates due to wear.
    - SECProto 5y ago
      Right, but the article is about greenhouse gas emissions (CO2 and equiv), so I was offering clarity. Particulate emissions don't have global warming potential aren't terribly relevant in the context.
- snovv_crash 5y ago
  EVs have a fraction of the brake dust due to regenerative braking. Tyres clearly need work though.
- mnahkies 5y ago
  As far as I understand it ~50% of emissions occur during manufacture. Unfortunately this won't be solved by EV
  - SECProto 5y ago
    Addressing climate change is a wide problem, every branch needs to be addressed: - switching to EV will eliminate tailpipe emissions (up to 50% per your number, grid dependent) - greening the grid will reduce more (reduce per-km emissions, as well as reduce manufacturing emissions) - Hydrogen reduced steel will reduce remaining manufacturing emissions All of these combined have to happen to get to zero, not just one or the other.
- csunbird 5y ago
  I think, Tesla claims that the brakes will last lifetime for the vehicle, as the regenerative braking is very aggressive and regular brakes should not be used that much.
akira2501 5y ago
With the complete lack of competent and high quality public transportation options in California, I'm not sure "targeting the fleet" would be where I spend most of my effort. Any vehicle that is tooling around empty is polluting. You've just moved the pollution from the vehicle to whatever source is powering the grid. Even if it was fully renewable that still would not a good excuse to entirely ignore efficiency in these "full vehicle for a single rider" transportation options.

wolverine876 5y ago

"California requires autonomous vehicles to be zero-emission by 2030" seems more accurate".

zsmi 5y ago
"California requires autonomous vehicles that meet SAE's level 3 definition or higher to be zero-emission by 2030" seems more accurate".
- sharken 5y ago
  And sensible too. The general public has a different idea of what autonomous means. Level 5 autonomous vehicles are not even guaranteed to appear as early as 2030.

LinuxBender 5y ago

The article is confusing. Here [1] is the actual bill and it makes more sense. [1] - https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220SB500 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml...