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An aside question. Does Egypt or other countries sell these artifact to Britain to put in museums? Also why would the prefer giving rare artifacts to another co

An aside question. Does Egypt or other countries sell these artifact to Britain to put in museums? Also why would the prefer giving rare artifacts to another country instead of displaying them in their own museums?

zemnmez 5y ago
I think most of these artefacts come from british occupation of egypt while it was a vassal of the ottoman empire, the zeitgeist of which basically started when napoleon started studying and abducting ancient artefacts into france to support his revanchist ideals of the ancient world
legitster 5y ago
Some of them were straight up stolen, but (my understanding) is that most artifacts are just sold by locals who don't really understand or appreciate the value. So a lot of what the Egyptian government is trying to do is educate their own people on the importance and value of artifacts and to not just sell them to tourists for a song and dance.
Ozzie_osman 5y ago
Egyptian here. Many taken during the British occupation. But throughout history, just stolen/smuggled out. Egypt was also occupied by the Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Ottomans, and French. And aside from the occupations, there's a pretty vibrant smuggling trade. Egypt keeps trying to repatriate these artifacts but with very limited success (https://english.alaraby.co.uk/analysis/egypt-wants-its-stolen-artefacts-back https://english.alaraby.co.uk/analysis/egypt-wants-its-stole...). As an Egyptian it's both interesting/frustrating to find museums outside Egypt with more stuff than many museums in Egypt. For instance, it was a little intriguing when visiting the Vatican museum, to find they had a pretty large Ancient Egyptian collection for some reason.
- 01100011 5y ago
  Sorry if this comes across as rude, but are modern Egyptians related in any way to ancient Egyptians? If not, it would seem that their possession of ancient Egyptian artifacts is no more justified than any other modern people.
  - Ozzie_osman 5y ago
    Not rude, but I think a little naive. Because it's not just DNA. Egyptians (and our Egyptologists) think we are related to Ancient Egyptians, despite that over the years, African, North African, European, and Asian DNA has mixed in. Some Western scholars disagree. But that's not the point. I grew up in an apartment where on a clear day, you could look West and see the step pyramid at Saqqara. I drove in a street parallel to the aqueduct on my way to my grandmother's house each week. I passed Saladin's citadel regularly driving through the city. My high school graduation picture was on the first step of the Great Pyramid. So I could give f_uck all whether I'm related by DNA to the people who built those. It's part of my heritage.
    - selimthegrim 5y ago
      Up until the end of the pagan Roman period Greeks and Egyptians didn’t mix much - so it’s pretty plausible that the gene pool was around when the Arabs invaded. I would like to know which Western scholars disagreed. I recently read the book “Sunset Oasis” by an Egyptian author which was the basis for a TV series too apparently which was a good take on this.
    - throwawaylinux 5y ago
      Wow that is a really interesting position to take, I appreciate the bluntness. How would you reconcile that with other nations or people who currently have ownership of said artifacts, and have a heritage of conquering / empires / archaeology / tomb raiding / whatever you might call it? Someone might see the British Museum out the window of their apartment and have photos of themselves in the Egypt exhibit. I'm not trying to be mocking or trivialize the issue or your answer, just trying to explore this idea.
  - leto_ii 5y ago
    I would say the parent author has been too polite in their response. Your comment is offensive and nonsensical. Why on earth would genetic relations matter in any way for something like this? As far as I know basically nowhere on Earth is it possible to trace direct genetic lineages back thousands of years to some specific ancient population living in the same area. Perhaps things are different in Australia, or other isolated places, but I think pretty much anywhere in Eurasia + Africa you will get an endless flow and mixing of populations, cultures, religions etc. With this in mind, it's safe to say that your view would justify all kinds of imperialist atrocities. I think at any given moment in time what matters is whether the population currently inhabiting that place voluntarily and democratically decided to relinquish/sell certain artifacts. Whether that population is genetically related to the people who created the artifacts is irrelevant.

zemnmez 5y ago

I think most of these artefacts come from british occupation of egypt while it was a vassal of the ottoman empire, the zeitgeist of which basically started when napoleon started studying and abducting ancient artefacts into france to support his revanchist ideals of the ancient world

legitster 5y ago

Some of them were straight up stolen, but (my understanding) is that most artifacts are just sold by locals who don't really understand or appreciate the value. So a lot of what the Egyptian government is trying to do is educate their own people on the importance and value of artifacts and to not just sell them to tourists for a song and dance.

Ozzie_osman 5y ago

Egyptian here. Many taken during the British occupation. But throughout history, just stolen/smuggled out. Egypt was also occupied by the Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Ottomans, and French. And aside from the occupations, there's a pretty vibrant smuggling trade. Egypt keeps trying to repatriate these artifacts but with very limited success (https://english.alaraby.co.uk/analysis/egypt-wants-its-stolen-artefacts-back https://english.alaraby.co.uk/analysis/egypt-wants-its-stole...). As an Egyptian it's both interesting/frustrating to find museums outside Egypt with more stuff than many museums in Egypt. For instance, it was a little intriguing when visiting the Vatican museum, to find they had a pretty large Ancient Egyptian collection for some reason.

01100011 5y ago
Sorry if this comes across as rude, but are modern Egyptians related in any way to ancient Egyptians? If not, it would seem that their possession of ancient Egyptian artifacts is no more justified than any other modern people.
- Ozzie_osman 5y ago
  Not rude, but I think a little naive. Because it's not just DNA. Egyptians (and our Egyptologists) think we are related to Ancient Egyptians, despite that over the years, African, North African, European, and Asian DNA has mixed in. Some Western scholars disagree. But that's not the point. I grew up in an apartment where on a clear day, you could look West and see the step pyramid at Saqqara. I drove in a street parallel to the aqueduct on my way to my grandmother's house each week. I passed Saladin's citadel regularly driving through the city. My high school graduation picture was on the first step of the Great Pyramid. So I could give f_uck all whether I'm related by DNA to the people who built those. It's part of my heritage.
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    Up until the end of the pagan Roman period Greeks and Egyptians didn’t mix much - so it’s pretty plausible that the gene pool was around when the Arabs invaded. I would like to know which Western scholars disagreed. I recently read the book “Sunset Oasis” by an Egyptian author which was the basis for a TV series too apparently which was a good take on this.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    Wow that is a really interesting position to take, I appreciate the bluntness. How would you reconcile that with other nations or people who currently have ownership of said artifacts, and have a heritage of conquering / empires / archaeology / tomb raiding / whatever you might call it? Someone might see the British Museum out the window of their apartment and have photos of themselves in the Egypt exhibit. I'm not trying to be mocking or trivialize the issue or your answer, just trying to explore this idea.
- leto_ii 5y ago
  I would say the parent author has been too polite in their response. Your comment is offensive and nonsensical. Why on earth would genetic relations matter in any way for something like this? As far as I know basically nowhere on Earth is it possible to trace direct genetic lineages back thousands of years to some specific ancient population living in the same area. Perhaps things are different in Australia, or other isolated places, but I think pretty much anywhere in Eurasia + Africa you will get an endless flow and mixing of populations, cultures, religions etc. With this in mind, it's safe to say that your view would justify all kinds of imperialist atrocities. I think at any given moment in time what matters is whether the population currently inhabiting that place voluntarily and democratically decided to relinquish/sell certain artifacts. Whether that population is genetically related to the people who created the artifacts is irrelevant.